13 Rules: NBA Random Thoughts Overtime - 1985 NBA Finals!

[00:00:01] All right, man. It's time to talk basketball. I'm already disheveled, so you can tell it's going to be that kind of show. I'm Jose Salviati, editor at the Beach Basket and athletic director, and this is the 13 Rules Random NBA Thoughts Overtime Podcast. This is an absolutely great time of the year to be a fan of sports in general. NHL and NBA are in preseason. WNBA and MLB are in the playoffs. NFL and MLS soccer seasons are underway. There's seven for everybody.

[00:00:30] But for us at the Peach Basket, we have spent the NBA offseason, Steve and I have, discussing NBA stars from the 60s and 70s by talking about them with someone who watched them play, that being Steve. It's been great fun. We've discussed Will Chamberlain, Sam Jones, Rick Barry, Pistol P. Maravitz, Jerry West, and a bunch of others. Great players. And Steve added some insight because he literally remembers watching them play, which to me is incredible.

[00:00:57] We were also able to interview current NBA referee Scott Foster, NBA champions Kevin Grevy and Tom Henderson. It has been a wild, incredibly amazing NBA offseason for us.

[00:01:08] Today, thanks to the recommendation of Chris, a listener, and we're grateful for this recommendation.

[00:01:15] Instead of discussing a player, we're going to discuss arguably the greatest rivalry in sports history.

[00:01:22] In fact, the greatest decade of the greatest rivalry in sports history, the 1980s battles between the two winningest franchises in NBA history, the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics.

[00:01:34] Absolutely the best time to be alive if you were an NBA fan with these two juggernauts just going at it every year, seemingly every year.

[00:01:41] So let's take a look at a little bit of a buildup. Today, we're going to be talking about 1985.

[00:01:46] But first, a buildup in 1980. Magic Johnson, a rookie, led the Lakers, the Showtime Lakers, to the NBA finals over Philadelphia, led by Dr. J.

[00:01:57] Boston got to the finals in 1981, led by the big three of Byrd, McHale and Parrish.

[00:02:03] They beat the Rockets in six games. The Lakers returned to the finals in 82,

[00:02:07] this time with Pat Riley at the helm. In a rematch against the Sixers, the Lakers won again in six games.

[00:02:14] In 83, the Lakers ruined the, pardon me, the Sixers ruined the party by trading for Moses Malone

[00:02:20] and defeating the Lakers in the finals in a sweep.

[00:02:25] Then in 84, NBA fans got what they wanted, and Steve and I discussed this last week

[00:02:30] after a four-year season buildup, and the NBA fans got the Lakers versus the Celtics,

[00:02:36] and it was an absolute battle. We talked about how the Lakers had really the series in control,

[00:02:42] seemingly, but Boston was a better team. I think Steve made the point that the Lakers were the

[00:02:46] better team, but Boston was a champion. And at the end of the day, scoreboard rules.

[00:02:51] So regular season went to Boston, finals went to Boston, and the offseason was painful for Los Angeles

[00:03:00] Lakers. What are they going to do in 1985? The NBA got a rematch. The Celtics were looking to repeat

[00:03:08] in 1985 as NBA champions for the first time since 1968-69. If you're a fan of this show, you know

[00:03:14] that's Steve's greatest season. That's his favorite team when the Celtics won it that year. The Celtics

[00:03:20] finished the regular season with a record of 63-19. Juggernaut. Lakers, 62-20.

[00:03:26] This is the two best teams in the West and the East. It's just a great time to be alive. Lakers

[00:03:32] were seeking to beat Boston for the first time ever in NBA Finals history, a fact that will likely go

[00:03:38] repeated multiple times by Steve as we record the show. And also for the first time since 1955,

[00:03:44] the Finals implemented a 2-3-2 format with games one and two in Boston because they had the better

[00:03:49] record while the next three were in LA, which is interesting. So we're going to go over each game

[00:03:54] as we remember it, right? I watched those games. I remember those games. I don't remember a lot of

[00:04:00] detail, but I'm certainly going to interject. We'll start with game one. This is a game known

[00:04:08] as the Memorial Day Massacre. Let me share my screen and we'll take a look at the box score and talk about

[00:04:15] what we remember about that particular game and what it looked like for each team in the series.

[00:04:22] Let's go and take a look at, wow, this box score. What a punch to the gut, right? 148 to 114,

[00:04:32] Boston Celtics destroyed the Lakers at home in Boston. And they even captured this in

[00:04:40] basketballreference.com, which is funny, calling it the Memorial Day Massacre.

[00:04:43] This must have been great for fans of the Celtics and probably something you turned off in the third

[00:04:49] or second quarter if you're a Lakers fan. Steve, any memories about this game?

[00:04:53] I didn't turn it off, first of all. I watched the whole game because I'm a basketball fan.

[00:04:59] The game was a blowout. I believe Scott Wedman had a perfect day. I think he was 11 for 11 from the floor.

[00:05:05] I remember that and remember I said Wedman was a really good shooter. Probably the only guy Boston

[00:05:10] had on their bench. And if you look, and it's an interesting point, Mikael Byrd and DJ Dennis Johnson

[00:05:18] will have over 40 minutes, they'll average per game. Yeah. Look what they got there. So that tells you

[00:05:24] they played a lot more in the other games. The game was never close. Boston just blew them out.

[00:05:30] Now sitting watching the game, I was thinking back to the year before when Boston wasn't as good

[00:05:37] as the Lakers. How could this change? How could all of a sudden Boston's much better? Something's not

[00:05:42] right. They said, it looks like Boston's going to win this year, but it's just not right.

[00:05:48] For Boston, they started using more of Danny Ainge. General Henderson had been traded.

[00:05:53] Interestingly enough, he was traded for a first round pick with Seattle. That pit became Len Bynes.

[00:06:00] But, well, Henderson wasn't with them anymore. And if we look at their bench, Scott Wedman,

[00:06:05] Quinn Buckner was not a good player when he played with the Celtics. Cedric Maxwell,

[00:06:10] there's a story on that. Cedric Maxwell was starting. And then during the year,

[00:06:14] he hurt his knee. He got surgery, I believe, and came back late in the year. The Boston players were

[00:06:21] pissed at him, really, because they felt he was not coming back as quickly as possible.

[00:06:27] What will happen is, and this is interesting, after the series, he gets traded for a guy that you

[00:06:34] might have heard of, Bill Walton. So it was very interesting because Boston had it with Maxwell,

[00:06:41] and Maxwell now does the radio for the Celtics and is back in good graces. But for a long time,

[00:06:47] he and Larry Bird weren't getting along after they both were done. But now, you know, everything's

[00:06:54] back. Max is back, and he's pretty good on the radio. But that was interesting. So Boston was really

[00:07:01] playing with five guys, if you look at it. Scott Wedman, as I said, played well. But these guys were

[00:07:06] all getting garbage minutes to bench with him because it was an easy game. Now, the other piece

[00:07:12] that's important, after game one, I believe the Lakers never picked the ball up. All Riley did was show film

[00:07:20] and get on them because he felt they had the word how to win. And he really gave it, really wrote him. And also,

[00:07:29] Kareem, it was said, because I think he had about 12 in the first game. Go back. I think he had 12. He didn't play.

[00:07:37] Yeah. He didn't play. Pre-boards. Like his age, Restore Michelle and all the others. Right.

[00:07:43] That goes wild. So he took a pounding. And I know Riley, in those film sessions in between games,

[00:07:49] was all over. And really put it straight out to him. So there was a lot of motivation. And Riley,

[00:07:56] this really, and he won, he won a sharing. But this is really where all of a sudden,

[00:08:02] people began to realize how great a coach he can be. Yeah. Game two, things changed a lot.

[00:08:09] I'm going ahead of you because of being back in one. Yeah. And we'll get there in apologies

[00:08:16] to Laker fans for spending more time on this game than we needed to. But I do want to call out,

[00:08:21] because yeah, the one recollection I have about this is, and NBA fans generally,

[00:08:26] we're so focused on a single game instead of the whole. Being down to one is not great,

[00:08:30] but being down to one on the road. Listen, that's almost expected. You're not expected to win

[00:08:35] on the road. Now in 84, the Lakers did, right? And they could have won both as we know. But a loss

[00:08:42] is a loss, man. You'd rather lose. People say, I've heard players say, I'd rather lose by 30 than

[00:08:47] lose by one. It hurts a little more to lose by one. This was a blowout, undeniably. But the one thing I

[00:08:52] remember is, yeah, the rumors and it wasn't even whispers. It was the loud yells about Kareem is

[00:08:59] finally done it, right? He's gone over the edge. He's got to retire. He just, he looked like a shell

[00:09:05] of himself. And you can see the numbers right here. Six of 11, 22 minutes, 12 points, three rebounds.

[00:09:13] Just horribly poor numbers. And Steve made the point earlier, the Lakers were never in it. Take a look

[00:09:18] at the box score, right? 38-24 in the first, 41-25 in the second. For all sense and purposes,

[00:09:24] the game's over, right? The three-point shot was in play here, but they didn't use it. They didn't

[00:09:29] use it like they use it today. And then a special shout out again, just to repeat what Steve said,

[00:09:34] Scott Wedman. Yeah, not only, oh, I'm looking at the wrong stat line here. Not only 11-11,

[00:09:40] but that includes four for four from Dean. Which again, the three-point, they took nine total

[00:09:44] three-point shots, the Celtics in that game. The three-pointer was not the weapon it is today.

[00:09:49] But it's a blowout. It was what it was. Lakers were down 1-0 and they had to win game two.

[00:09:56] They knew they had to win game two. Let's take a look at what happened then. Although we had a

[00:10:00] spoiler alert because Steve already called it out. The Lakers came back 1-0, 1-0 to tie up the series

[00:10:07] in Boston, which is exactly what you want, right? If you're the division team. So again, let's take

[00:10:14] a look at these numbers and see what rings out to you about this. Do you remember anything about this

[00:10:19] game? The only thing I remember was Michael Cooper played really well down the stretch. He was a key

[00:10:24] player for them. Not just defense. He did score some big baskets. I don't remember the depth of it.

[00:10:32] I do remember them losing. And I do remember saying to myself, we got a series because now

[00:10:39] they got to go back to LA and they've got to figure out how to win a game there. And all of a sudden

[00:10:44] things change. Again, at a young, I was much younger than the realization was you put one game

[00:10:51] behind you and go on to the next game. And that game means nothing if you were by 30 or if you

[00:10:57] win by two. That was like what was going on in my end. But I did know it would get difficult in LA

[00:11:04] because the Lakers, I guess we can call it the 25% rule or the blind score of finds an acre.

[00:11:11] Meaning they've played 12 times, the Celtics and Lakers over the years. Up until that point,

[00:11:18] I believe the Lakers hadn't won once. They've won three, so that's the 25% rule. So the Lakers

[00:11:24] finally did win a few, but it took a while for them to get there. And I knew the world averages

[00:11:29] they couldn't win every year. And by the way, I think Bird won his second or third MVP this year

[00:11:36] is it wrong? Well, yes. No, Larry Bird was amazing and he led everybody in the entire series and

[00:11:46] points scored. But, right, I don't know what you're alluding to. Yeah, overall, look at his numbers.

[00:11:52] 30 points, lead everybody for the Celtics, but our 90-21 shootings. So he did not have a

[00:11:58] quintessential Larry Bird series. And I want to call out here for Boston too, which Steve called

[00:12:04] out earlier. They were playing six guys, right? Look at the big numbers in a close game as opposed

[00:12:09] to a blowout. They played the bench a lot. And the only other player off the bench, pardon me,

[00:12:15] that played their starters a lot, the only player off the bench who had significant minutes was Scott

[00:12:18] Wedman. Look at the minutes. Yeah. He and Jerry was playing. He played 43, Derb 41, Robert Collars 38,

[00:12:27] McHale only 36. He'll go on and average the most minutes in that series. But they,

[00:12:34] as I told you, I think the other day, Boston would call a timeout. I remember a timeout.

[00:12:40] Tole Bird with a minute or so left in the third quarter and let him sit, figuring during the

[00:12:45] interim time between the quarters, he would, they thought that would help his rest because

[00:12:51] they needed him on the court. So he'd only should have been on the other side and get him out there.

[00:12:55] So he was playing. If the games were close, he wasn't sitting much.

[00:13:00] Yeah. Let's take a look at the Lakers real quick before we move to game three. This is

[00:13:05] honestly the pinnacle of Lakers basketball. This is the five that generally you think of it. If

[00:13:11] you're a Laker fan, Byron Scott, Kareem, Magic, James Worthy, and Karambas. Look at those minutes.

[00:13:17] Same kind of thing, right? For the Lakers, except they had two players off the bench that were key

[00:13:23] contributors. Michael Cooper, who scored 22 points. Steve called him out earlier. And Bob McAdoo,

[00:13:28] who his numbers here don't show a lot. One of six points, but good player.

[00:13:34] And I do notice that Randy, she's getting a lot of players.

[00:13:37] I was going to call it out because yeah, Steve has made the point that Rambis is essentially

[00:13:41] just the fifth player because they need five. And he did not do a whole lot of contributing

[00:13:46] in this particular game.

[00:13:47] I'm shocked.

[00:13:48] But yeah, almost more of a bench role when you look at his minutes. But the Lakers did

[00:13:54] come out ahead 109-102, head to LA with some momentum. Let's take a look at what happens

[00:13:59] in pivotal game three. In game three, the Lakers came back to win 136-111 to take a little

[00:14:06] bit of control over the series. Let's take a look at the box score first. You can see he started

[00:14:11] off a close game. Boston ahead. Lakers punched back in the second and third and really took

[00:14:18] control with a 10-point lead in the fourth. So again, no real vivid memories here. What

[00:14:23] do you got to see?

[00:14:23] Well, John, this is just your research. Boston was winning 48-33.

[00:14:31] Wow.

[00:14:32] So if you do some math, I believe it was the Lakers from that point on 98-63.

[00:14:39] Wow. Now, one of the things I do remember, war in 87, the Laker crowd would really get

[00:14:46] into it and it would rattle Boston. We could talk about 87 another time. But in game six,

[00:14:53] Boston was winning throughout, not into the third quarter. And then the crowd got into it,

[00:14:58] a couple steals, and all of a sudden, Boston was getting beaten pretty good. So once that

[00:15:04] crowd got rolling, the Lakers just weren't, it was just unstoppable.

[00:15:11] Interesting story there. Being in LA, maybe something you didn't hear about, but when Magic

[00:15:17] Johnson got here and started playing in LA, Los Angeles cries notoriously where they want

[00:15:23] to beat the traffic, right? So it didn't matter if the Lakers were winning or losing by the

[00:15:26] third quarter, middle of the fourth, you're exiting the forum, right? And that hurt Magic Johnson. He

[00:15:33] just wasn't used to that. He didn't like it. And he called out Los Angeles fans. And he basically said,

[00:15:39] get off your phones, which I don't know. Probably didn't say get off your phones. I don't think we

[00:15:43] had cell phones necessarily across the board in the 80s. But his message was clear. Pay attention

[00:15:49] to the game. Stay for the duration of the game. Be a fan. We need you. And it was a big deal out here

[00:15:56] in LA. And this was before 84, right? But the point is he got the crowd to be an asset, right? Magic

[00:16:06] Johnson got the crowd to be an asset. So what you're saying impacted the Celtics is an assist,

[00:16:12] another assist from Magic Johnson, because he absolutely demanded that from Los Angeles fans.

[00:16:18] And Los Angeles fans notoriously, right? Not only did they leave early, they were a celebrity row.

[00:16:23] And it was a very kind of posh, not a rabid fan environment in the forum when Magic got here,

[00:16:30] but it certainly was by 1984. So let me call out just a couple of things here. Then we'll go on to

[00:16:35] game four. Let me take a look at some numbers here. Magic 17 and 16 assists. Just Magic Johnson,

[00:16:44] right? Kareem, he bounced back a little bit. 26 points on 10 of 13 shootings, 14 rebounds,

[00:16:51] seven assists, solid numbers. All of a sudden now, the top is quieting down.

[00:16:57] Look who started next to Magic.

[00:17:02] Barry Scott?

[00:17:03] Yeah, they made the change when they beat Cooper on the bench.

[00:17:07] If you look at what McAdoo did, McAdoo always hurt the Celtics.

[00:17:14] He's Scott Wedman to the Celtics.

[00:17:16] For those people that don't know, what could he do as an ex-Sheltee?

[00:17:20] Great overall win. And we can see a lot of time for some of the bench players on the Lakers as well.

[00:17:25] So not a payback for the Memorial Day Massacre, but a good win. Lakers take control 2-1.

[00:17:32] We go to game four. All right?

[00:17:35] Now game four. Now this, I'm just going off the score.

[00:17:38] Again, no real memories of this game, but this was like a tight battle.

[00:17:42] Mike Pusset 7-105. Let's take a look.

[00:17:44] Lakers with a slight lead in the first.

[00:17:47] Washington gets it back in the second.

[00:17:49] Lakers a little bit of a lead in the third.

[00:17:51] This was a tight game from the jump, it looks like.

[00:17:54] What do you remember about this one, Steve?

[00:17:56] I remember one thing.

[00:17:58] Washington had the ball at the end of the game.

[00:18:01] I don't know what they were running.

[00:18:03] DJ Dennis Johnson had the ball.

[00:18:05] He dribbled down to the foul line, and the clock was running down, and I'm watching it.

[00:18:11] Once he, like, don't you give it to Berg or whatever?

[00:18:13] And he, quite a line, I guess at the elbow, maybe right around there.

[00:18:18] He hit right at the buzzer, a turnaround jumper.

[00:18:23] We involved that.

[00:18:24] On Boston Stoll we get him.

[00:18:26] In my mind, I'm saying, okay, now it's 2-2.

[00:18:30] Game five, if they lose it, they're still coming home, and they got it.

[00:18:33] They're in.

[00:18:35] You know, so I'm thinking, okay, it's a series.

[00:18:39] But that was, and it was a great game because he was competitive,

[00:18:42] and it was one of them games where you just sit and roll back and fight things.

[00:18:47] Look at the minutes for Boston.

[00:18:49] Look at McHale.

[00:18:51] Look at Dennis Johnson.

[00:18:53] Yeah.

[00:18:53] The four of them all in 40 minutes and above.

[00:18:56] Yeah.

[00:18:57] That's unbelievable.

[00:18:58] Unbelievable.

[00:18:59] And you can see that this is, Boston, the Boston coach, it was Casey Gillard, right?

[00:19:05] What?

[00:19:06] Casey made a decision.

[00:19:07] We're going to play five, six guys max, and we're just going to roll the dice, man.

[00:19:12] And these guys came through.

[00:19:14] Kevin McHale, 28.

[00:19:15] DJ, 27.

[00:19:17] Bird, 26.

[00:19:18] Parrish.

[00:19:19] Parrish didn't have a great game, but didn't need it.

[00:19:21] It looks like I'm sure that he didn't work on the defensive side, for sure.

[00:19:26] For sure.

[00:19:27] The interesting thing is, and I talked about this before,

[00:19:29] Maxwell kicked off a lot of people in Boston.

[00:19:34] He jumped off a cliff.

[00:19:35] Oh, it was mean.

[00:19:36] He had a bad knee.

[00:19:38] Players thought he wasn't, you know, he was whole.

[00:19:41] He wasn't hurt.

[00:19:41] He could play.

[00:19:43] They were angry at him, but they couldn't get anything out of him on that series

[00:19:46] because it had all chapters from him.

[00:19:48] And now you can give Bird, Chief, more rust.

[00:19:54] Right.

[00:19:54] I mean, don't.

[00:19:56] And for those listening and not aware, that is Robert Parrish, the Chief.

[00:20:01] I was fortunate enough to go to games in the 80s, and I got to see Robert Parrish up close.

[00:20:07] And he was the biggest human being I've ever seen in my whole entire life.

[00:20:11] To me as a kid, his shoulders looked to be as wide as he was tall.

[00:20:15] He was just a big man.

[00:20:17] Let's take a look at what the Lakers did in this game.

[00:20:20] James Worthy, 16 points.

[00:20:22] Magic, 20 and 12.

[00:20:24] Just continuing to do Magic Johnson things.

[00:20:27] Byron Scott, 16.

[00:20:29] Cap, that's Matt.

[00:20:31] Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's nickname, right?

[00:20:32] 21 and 6.

[00:20:34] And this is where we see Robert Parrish's influence, probably.

[00:20:37] He just focused on defense.

[00:20:39] And Karambis got a little bit more time and contributed 12 points and 7 board.

[00:20:44] George.

[00:20:45] What could he?

[00:20:47] So, great battle.

[00:20:49] And now you see the series now is tied.

[00:20:53] And it's anybody's series right at this point.

[00:20:56] It's anybody's series.

[00:20:57] You've had blowouts by both teams.

[00:21:00] You had the Lakers a little bit more comfortable win.

[00:21:04] The Celtics with the close win.

[00:21:05] In game four, we go to game five.

[00:21:08] And this is where you really start to see the Lakers become the Lakers.

[00:21:14] And the Lakers, the Laker fans, they love to romanticize.

[00:21:18] And this is a great team.

[00:21:20] 120, 111.

[00:21:21] They won the game.

[00:21:22] Let's take a look at the box score.

[00:21:23] 35-31.

[00:21:25] So, Lakers got off to a good start.

[00:21:27] And look what they did in the second quarter.

[00:21:28] 29-20.

[00:21:29] Kept it up.

[00:21:30] They won the third.

[00:21:31] They lost the fourth.

[00:21:32] But it didn't matter.

[00:21:33] They had a big enough lead.

[00:21:34] What are your recollections about this game?

[00:21:37] Boston was down by about 15 or 20.

[00:21:41] And they made a run.

[00:21:42] And they cut it to four.

[00:21:44] And every time.

[00:21:45] And they kept getting it there.

[00:21:47] Or five.

[00:21:48] I don't remember exactly.

[00:21:49] But every time they did, a Lakers scored a basket.

[00:21:53] And just stopped that.

[00:21:55] And every time it happened, they did.

[00:21:57] And then ultimately, the Lakers held on and went down.

[00:22:00] Beyond.

[00:22:01] But the point being, Boston couldn't, you know, just get over the hump.

[00:22:06] And again, look at the minutes there.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] Staggering.

[00:22:10] Wow.

[00:22:11] They had no bench.

[00:22:12] They only went right on back.

[00:22:13] Not to be able to get people that physical bench.

[00:22:17] It's a chicken.

[00:22:18] And so on.

[00:22:19] And by the way, in this series, Bird, the MVP, did look for great series.

[00:22:26] Yeah.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:27] Once again, we got Bird at 20 points.

[00:22:30] Respectable number.

[00:22:31] 8-17 shooting.

[00:22:32] He did not shoot the ball well.

[00:22:34] And we've got a little snippet we're going to show you, too.

[00:22:36] The last two minutes of the last game.

[00:22:38] And you'll see something that I don't think I've, I don't remember ever seeing in a game

[00:22:41] that Larry Bird did.

[00:22:42] You'll see it here in just a minute.

[00:22:43] By the way, look at me.

[00:22:44] She has three minutes.

[00:22:48] Wow.

[00:22:49] Two points.

[00:22:49] One of the most underrated.

[00:22:51] Yeah.

[00:22:53] Super players.

[00:22:54] Yep.

[00:22:55] And he did whatever had to be done.

[00:22:57] He had to win.

[00:23:01] Phenomenal player.

[00:23:02] Quiet player is what I remember about DJ, but just an absolute assassin.

[00:23:05] I enjoyed watching him play.

[00:23:07] I didn't care that he was on the Sonics or the Celtics.

[00:23:09] He was just a fun player to watch play.

[00:23:12] Now take a look at what Kareem did.

[00:23:14] Now keep in mind, right?

[00:23:15] Series is tied.

[00:23:16] This is a must win.

[00:23:18] Kareem had heard.

[00:23:19] He'd been a Laker for a long time.

[00:23:20] He'd heard all the talk about the Celtics.

[00:23:22] He knows they'd never won.

[00:23:24] They've never won.

[00:23:24] They've never won.

[00:23:25] Kareem came out 36 points.

[00:23:27] Probably to match his age, give or take.

[00:23:30] Seven assists.

[00:23:31] Seven boards.

[00:23:33] What a game by the captain.

[00:23:34] 26 and 17.

[00:23:36] So magic match to DJ.

[00:23:39] 33 for James Worthy.

[00:23:40] Just unbelievable.

[00:23:42] Again, the pinnacle of Los Angeles Lakers basketball.

[00:23:45] Kurt Rambis, 27 points.

[00:23:47] Concentrated on the defensive end.

[00:23:49] Did his job.

[00:23:51] And then Byron Scott with force.

[00:23:53] And Coop again, I'm sure he had some lockdown defense against Byrd.

[00:23:57] And Larry Byrd, we've said it before.

[00:23:59] He said Michael Cooper is the toughest player that ever defended him.

[00:24:03] And I can't help but think that contributed a little bit here.

[00:24:05] So Lakers now up three to two.

[00:24:08] And now you travel to Boston.

[00:24:10] Last two games are in Boston.

[00:24:12] Right?

[00:24:13] The Lakers have never won in Boston.

[00:24:16] The Lakers have never beaten Boston.

[00:24:18] Overall.

[00:24:19] Ever.

[00:24:20] Ever.

[00:24:20] Got two shots at it.

[00:24:22] Let's take a look at what happens in game six.

[00:24:27] The Los Angeles Lakers beat the Stout.

[00:24:29] The Lakers.

[00:24:30] 11 to 100.

[00:24:32] Let's take a look at how it went.

[00:24:35] 28-26.

[00:24:36] The Lakers got off to an early start.

[00:24:40] Boston came back.

[00:24:41] Closed game.

[00:24:42] Right?

[00:24:42] We've got a couple in this series.

[00:24:44] Lakers took control in the third.

[00:24:47] And it looks like they held on in the fourth.

[00:24:50] Now I've got the last two minutes of that game.

[00:24:52] We'll show it here.

[00:24:53] As Steve reminisces.

[00:24:55] And with apology, Steve.

[00:24:57] I know this was a tough one.

[00:24:58] The Lakers won.

[00:24:59] We'll take a look at the box score.

[00:25:01] But let me play the last two minutes of this game.

[00:25:04] And then Steve, let me know what you remember about this one.

[00:25:07] Something here in the last two minutes that I've never seen Larry Bird do.

[00:25:11] Or I don't remember him doing.

[00:25:17] Ugly shot.

[00:25:25] This is it right here.

[00:25:26] Look at this.

[00:25:28] An air ball.

[00:25:30] I can't help but think that you could count on one hand how many air balls Larry Bird has had in his career.

[00:25:45] And I don't remember much.

[00:25:47] But I remember feeling relief.

[00:25:51] After Kareem did what he's about to do here in a second.

[00:25:54] The best and most unstoppable shot in NBA history.

[00:25:57] Bar none.

[00:25:59] Kareem doesn't do this.

[00:26:01] Kareem doesn't do this.

[00:26:03] He knew the history.

[00:26:04] He knew what he was doing.

[00:26:05] He knew what that shot meant.

[00:26:07] The Lakers were about to win.

[00:26:09] Well, they don't win that often.

[00:26:10] So we got a shiny.

[00:26:11] I understand.

[00:26:12] But he's a quiet guy.

[00:26:14] He never did that.

[00:26:16] You just don't see that out of enthusiasm from him.

[00:26:18] They're so used to getting D.

[00:26:21] That you get a shiny over things like that.

[00:26:23] Did you just hear what the announcer said?

[00:26:26] He said not a dynasty.

[00:26:27] Oh, you can't hear it at all?

[00:26:29] Yeah.

[00:26:30] What did he say?

[00:26:30] Oh, no.

[00:26:31] I'm sorry, you guys.

[00:26:33] What did he say?

[00:26:34] He said the Lakers have been in five of the last six finals.

[00:26:37] One, three, four, five.

[00:26:38] I don't remember exactly.

[00:26:39] He said not a dynasty.

[00:26:42] Which is shocking to me.

[00:26:43] I think he was doing.

[00:26:44] He was doing the color.

[00:26:46] And I'm so sorry if you guys cannot hear this.

[00:26:48] That's on me.

[00:26:50] But, yeah, they said not a dynasty.

[00:26:52] By today's standards, it's an absolute dynasty.

[00:26:55] Bad foul, by the way, to take DJ to the line.

[00:26:58] No need to do that.

[00:27:06] It passed.

[00:27:08] This is classy.

[00:27:09] And, listen, for all the, let's call it hatred, right?

[00:27:13] The rivalry between Boston and L.A.

[00:27:15] Again, you guys can't hear the audio.

[00:27:17] I got you on apologies for that.

[00:27:19] But this team right now is being serenaded by their fans.

[00:27:24] And nothing but respect for Boston fans.

[00:27:26] They are fans of the game.

[00:27:28] And they know that this was a great team, a great series.

[00:27:32] And Boston fans are saluting that right now.

[00:27:36] This was a dumb attempt by Byron Scott.

[00:27:38] Young guy tried to do that emphatic dunk at the end of the game.

[00:27:42] He missed it.

[00:27:43] That let me.

[00:27:45] Nobody's leaving either.

[00:27:47] That's the bad foul.

[00:27:48] I'm sorry.

[00:27:50] Nobody left.

[00:27:51] They're screaming for their team.

[00:27:54] And, you know, just nothing but respect.

[00:27:56] Nothing but respect for Boston fans.

[00:28:01] And Kareem has said this was the pinnacle of his career, winning in Boston and hearing the silence.

[00:28:07] By the way.

[00:28:08] Which is, I understand how dumb that sounds.

[00:28:10] But that was pretty special for Kareem.

[00:28:12] First time Boston ever lost a game seven.

[00:28:14] There was one other time they lost.

[00:28:16] They were all lost.

[00:28:18] Another team getting the championship in their building.

[00:28:20] It was Golden State.

[00:28:21] I love watching Magic, right?

[00:28:23] Who dribbled off the clock in the last game.

[00:28:26] KC brings Larry Bird out of the game.

[00:28:28] Your crowd goes crazy.

[00:28:32] And yeah, just a ton of respect, right?

[00:28:35] Because Bird did not have a great series, as you called out.

[00:28:38] But big cheers for him.

[00:28:40] And this is it.

[00:28:43] I think Michael Cooper gets the last touch, throws the ball up in the air.

[00:28:48] And the Lakers are the world champs.

[00:28:54] All right.

[00:28:54] All right.

[00:28:55] All right.

[00:28:55] All right.

[00:28:55] All right.

[00:28:57] Let's go ahead and talk about what you remember about that last game.

[00:29:02] If the Lakers won, it's over.

[00:29:04] What could you say?

[00:29:06] There wasn't much to it.

[00:29:08] Bird didn't play well, probably because of Cooper.

[00:29:10] And Boston was tied at the half.

[00:29:12] Well, from Boston, horrible third quarter.

[00:29:15] And that was the ball game.

[00:29:16] They should win.

[00:29:17] Jabbar got the MVP, by the way.

[00:29:20] He did.

[00:29:21] He did.

[00:29:22] After saying that he should retire in game one.

[00:29:24] Larry Bird, 28 points.

[00:29:26] Generous.

[00:29:27] 12 to 29.

[00:29:29] 47 minutes for Bird.

[00:29:30] 43 for DJ.

[00:29:32] Only 11 points.

[00:29:33] Kevin McHale showed up 11 to 18 with 32.

[00:29:37] But again, yeah, I think the biggest thing for me with Boston

[00:29:41] is he had their bench, right?

[00:29:43] Scott Wedman was the only two for three, 7 points, 15 minutes.

[00:29:48] That's why.

[00:29:49] Zero minutes for Cedric Maxwell.

[00:29:51] That's why they went out and traded Maxwell for Walton.

[00:29:54] And that changed.

[00:29:55] We'll be coming six men next to the next year.

[00:29:58] And that would be Walton's last productive season in the NBA.

[00:30:02] But he was great.

[00:30:03] And he solved a lot of the issues for Boston.

[00:30:06] Right.

[00:30:06] On the bench.

[00:30:07] And I think he played 80 or 81 games that year, which he never did before.

[00:30:12] I don't know.

[00:30:14] Yeah.

[00:30:15] And it's really never did again.

[00:30:16] And we'll talk about that next time.

[00:30:18] Right now we're talking about 1985.

[00:30:20] No, we're not going to talk about 86 because the Lakers didn't get there.

[00:30:23] We can't.

[00:30:24] We have to wait till 87.

[00:30:26] That's my bet.

[00:30:27] When Cedric played with the broken foot.

[00:30:29] Was 86 when the Lakers lost to Houston in the first round?

[00:30:33] I think so.

[00:30:33] 86 might have been the greatest team that ever put on a court.

[00:30:37] Boston that year.

[00:30:38] You know what?

[00:30:39] And I was going to make that point.

[00:30:41] This is probably one of the greatest Lakers teams ever.

[00:30:44] And then it's interesting that the next year with Bill Long, that was probably one of the best

[00:30:49] Suffolk teams ever.

[00:30:50] I believe.

[00:30:51] Pinnacle of basketball, man.

[00:30:52] I believe Arbac goes out and gets Walton.

[00:30:54] But I believe he got a little guard from Indiana, Jerry Sheestik, who could shoot.

[00:30:59] Oh, I remember him.

[00:31:00] Yeah.

[00:31:00] I believe he played in 86.

[00:31:03] He was a key part because now they have a backup guard they can use as well as the big

[00:31:10] man, Walton, that they can use for Walton.

[00:31:13] Because don't forget, Byrd could play the three and a four.

[00:31:16] And so they could, one guy could play instead of Greg Kite, could do a lot of different things.

[00:31:22] They clearly needed a bench.

[00:31:24] They went out and got the bench.

[00:31:25] But 1985 belonged to the Lakers.

[00:31:28] James Worthy finished off the Celtics with 28.

[00:31:31] Magic 14 at 14.

[00:31:34] And 10.

[00:31:34] How about a triple-double?

[00:31:36] 29 for Kareem, which is probably what got him the MVP.

[00:31:39] He deserved at least.

[00:31:40] 14 for Byrd Sky.

[00:31:42] Kurt Rambis chipped in.

[00:31:44] 10 rebounds and 9 points.

[00:31:47] And Koop just, those are solid.

[00:31:50] Now, you don't need, not everybody's going to score 20 or 10.

[00:31:53] I'm impressed.

[00:31:56] That sarcasm is not seeing.

[00:31:58] Oh, I always thought Rambis could play.

[00:32:01] Michael Cooper did a great job again.

[00:32:04] Larry Bird, no doubt, 9 points.

[00:32:06] And the Lakers are the world champions.

[00:32:09] And all is well in the world in 1985.

[00:32:13] That is it.

[00:32:14] That is our trip down memory lane.

[00:32:16] I hope you enjoyed hearing about the 1985 NBA Finals.

[00:32:19] With two guys who watched it, watched them live.

[00:32:21] It was absolutely, undeniably, to date, probably the best time to be a basketball fan.

[00:32:28] With the two best players, the two best teams matching up against each other in a rematch.

[00:32:35] Just a great NBA Finals.

[00:32:36] Next week on 13 Rolls Random NBA Thoughts Overtime, Steve and I will probably discuss the next time

[00:32:42] these two decide to get together and entertain NBA fans in the Finals.

[00:32:46] T87.

[00:32:47] Right, Steve?

[00:32:48] Yep.

[00:32:49] All right.

[00:32:49] We'll do it then.

[00:32:50] And we'll talk again.

[00:32:51] It has, as always, been a great time.

[00:32:54] Please, thank you for joining.

[00:32:56] Thank you for finding us.

[00:32:57] Please subscribe, comment.

[00:32:58] All that stuff matters.

[00:32:59] All that stuff helps.

[00:33:00] We have a great time doing it.

[00:33:01] But we absolutely want to hear from you.

[00:33:03] Let us know what you enjoyed, what you did like, what you'd like us to talk about.

[00:33:07] The big part of why we do this is because we love doing it.

[00:33:11] But certainly to hear from you, it means the world to us.

[00:33:13] Thank you for joining us.

[00:33:14] We will be back again next week.

[00:33:16] Thanks, Steve.

[00:33:21] Boom, boom.