13 Rules: NBA Random Thoughts, Overtime! - NBA Champion Kevin Grevey Interview

[00:00:00] All right, it's time to talk basketball during the NBA offseason. Once again, I'm Jose Salviati, editor at ThePeachBasket.net

[00:00:07] I'm Steve Prasiello, a longtime educator, vice principal, high school coach and athletic director.

[00:00:12] And this is the 13 Rules Random NBA Thoughts Overtime podcast.

[00:00:17] During the offseason, Steve and I have been discussing NBA stars mostly from the 60s and 70s by talking about them with someone who liked,

[00:00:24] pardon me, who's watched them, which has been really cool. We've got a long list of NBA greats that we've talked about.

[00:00:30] We'll leave that in the description because the list is too long.

[00:00:34] But today we have a real special show. Instead of discussing NBA greats from the past, we're talking to an actual NBA World Champion from 1978,

[00:00:43] which is pretty incredible to me.

[00:00:46] Kevin Grevey was basketball, Mr. Basketball rather, in the state of Ohio in 1971, two-time SEC player of the year.

[00:00:53] His number 35 is retired at the University of Kentucky.

[00:00:56] He was drafted in the first round at number 18 by the then Washington Bullets and along with teammates Bob Dandridge and the future Hall of Fame duo of Elvin Hayes and Wes Unsell

[00:01:06] led the Bullets to the championship in 1978.

[00:01:11] Wow, chat it a little bit and let me tell you, I hope you stick around because this is some riveting conversation from somebody who's played the game and won at the highest level.

[00:01:20] Stephen and I are thrilled to welcome the 13 rules. Kevin Grevey, Kevin, thank you for your time.

[00:01:26] Hey, thank you, Jose. Steve, it's a pleasure to be on 13 rules. This will be fun.

[00:01:31] We're looking forward to it. We thought that a good way to start would be just by sharing your journey, right?

[00:01:37] I read a little bit about how you came to the NBA, how you came to love basketball, but I thought to level set,

[00:01:45] and I think it's different for everybody. Everybody's journey is so different and so unique.

[00:01:48] What was your journey like? When did you know that basketball was your future and what led you there?

[00:01:54] That's a great question. Obviously, I have great recall from growing up in a large family that was very competitive.

[00:02:01] My parents were competitive, good athletes. My mother was a real good tennis player, won the city championship many times.

[00:02:10] She would remind us all how good she was.

[00:02:12] My dad played college basketball at Xavier. Growing up in a large family that was competitive, I had five brothers and sisters.

[00:02:22] It didn't matter if it was cards or if it was backyard basketball or sand log baseball, we were going to get it on.

[00:02:30] I just remembered loving sports. It wasn't necessarily just basketball. It was whatever the season brought.

[00:02:38] I told my mother was very involved with the things that I was doing in school and after activities.

[00:02:47] I would never come in on time for dinner. I'd be gone. I'd be playing on my bicycle or whatever.

[00:02:53] She started getting on me really bad. She said, you know what? I'm not a short order cook when we eat dinner.

[00:02:58] I'm tired of this. I said, Mom, I'm going to be a professional athlete.

[00:03:04] I said, Mom, when I became a pro and I was thinking baseball at the time, not basketball,

[00:03:11] I said, when I'm a pro, I'm going to buy you a fur coat.

[00:03:16] At a temperature for about two seconds, don't do that anymore. Don't be late for dinner.

[00:03:21] But even at that time, when I was nine, 10 years old, I was a dreamer and I thought I was going to be a pro.

[00:03:29] Joe Knuxall was from my hometown of Hamilton, Ohio. His son, Kim, was a very good friend of mine.

[00:03:35] I would go over to his house and there's Cincinnati Reds pitcher right there at the dinner table.

[00:03:41] And I'm like, hey, can I talk to your dad a little bit about the curveball that he has?

[00:03:46] And it was like really cool. And then when I would pitch literally, if it was an off day for Joe Knuxall, he'd be in the stands.

[00:03:54] And soon as I saw Joe Knuxall, man, you talk about overthrowing at 11 year old.

[00:04:00] I was lucky I didn't throw my arm out, but I was like auditioning for Joe Knuxall.

[00:04:05] But of course he could Carol us. It was pretty cool to have.

[00:04:08] And so if he can do it, that gone and I can do it.

[00:04:13] And so I told Joe that well before he passed away, I said, you had as much to do with me being a pro.

[00:04:21] You have no idea the influence that you had on me because it made it feel real that my close friends dad was a professional athlete.

[00:04:31] But dad, he was like, he would catch me when I pitched. He would go out in the backyard.

[00:04:37] He was very active father. You talk about a lucky guy to have parents who loved you, who were there for you, my brother's sisters.

[00:04:47] And later on, I didn't want to let them down. I didn't want to embarrass him.

[00:04:51] So I think it kept me. It was like my guardian angel on my shoulder don't mess up.

[00:04:57] And my dad, he was a very good player. He had to hook shots to set shots and stuff.

[00:05:03] And he was strong. He was six three. And I went able to beat him until I was about 12 or 13 years old.

[00:05:10] And once I beat him, that was one of my first goals in life was beat my mother on the tennis court and beat my dad on the basketball court.

[00:05:21] And I accomplished that around 12 or 13 years old.

[00:05:25] So now you got to move on and start setting your bar a little bit higher.

[00:05:29] And I was fortunate to grow up in a Hamilton, Ohio, who really was a community looking after you.

[00:05:39] There was on the back of the Little League Diamond dugout.

[00:05:43] And I would see it every day when I go play baseball.

[00:05:46] And it said no man stood so tall as when he's stooped to help a little boy.

[00:05:52] And I'd see that never thought anything of it.

[00:05:55] But dad gone at that community really lived it and my parents friends, my friends, parents, it was just great to grow up in that kind of environment.

[00:06:05] And they had the support had your back and it led right on into the high school.

[00:06:12] And I played for some great coaches Adolf Rupp at Kentucky and Joe B Hall of Kentucky.

[00:06:19] My first coach in the NBA was Casey Jones, Gene Shoe, Dick Mada.

[00:06:26] The year we won the World Championship, he was my championship coach.

[00:06:29] And then at the end of my career, Don Nelson.

[00:06:32] But Steve, you left one out.

[00:06:35] The best coach I had was my high school coach, Marvin McCollum.

[00:06:39] I'm telling you this guy was so far before his time when college coaches would come to recruit me.

[00:06:48] They would stay an extra day.

[00:06:51] I thought they were going to watch stay to see me play that second day of practice.

[00:06:54] No, they were stand to pick Marvin McCollum's mind and they loved his organization.

[00:07:00] They loved the things he was teaching, the defensive calls, how to come over a pick, how to play the right way.

[00:07:08] I learned at a very young age, my freshman year how to play basketball properly and fit within a team.

[00:07:17] And it carried me a long way.

[00:07:19] It gave me all the fundamentals and the tools that I had that I needed to go to Kentucky to play.

[00:07:25] How was Adolf Rupp?

[00:07:27] When you got to Kentucky, how was interaction with him and so on?

[00:07:32] I'm 71 years old and I think Adolf Rupp passed away when he was 71.

[00:07:39] I like to think I'm a youthful 71.

[00:07:42] When Adolf Rupp was 65 was my freshman year at Kentucky.

[00:07:49] Going into my sophomore year, he turned 65.

[00:07:53] And he seemed like he was 105 to me as a college kid.

[00:07:59] He was snake bitten with diet.

[00:08:01] He was diabetic.

[00:08:02] He was really just shuffling around.

[00:08:05] He was having a hard time, but I was very intimidated with Adolf Rupp.

[00:08:12] He was gruff.

[00:08:13] He would never call me by my name.

[00:08:15] I didn't think he liked me and I was a freshman and playing with the varsity.

[00:08:22] And they had an all SEC performer in Kentucky.

[00:08:26] A guy named Tom Parker, 6'7".

[00:08:29] He was a version of me but just a little bigger, a little stronger and three years older.

[00:08:35] And by December, January, I was kicking his butt.

[00:08:39] And all of a sudden, coach Rupp started noticing me.

[00:08:43] And he didn't really recruit me.

[00:08:45] It was Joe B. Hall.

[00:08:46] And I went to Kentucky with the hopes of playing for Joe B. Hall.

[00:08:50] All of a sudden, coach Rupp started pulling me aside.

[00:08:54] He was lefty.

[00:08:55] Hey freshman, you're pretty good.

[00:08:58] You see what you're doing today in practice against Tom Parker, the SEC player of the year?

[00:09:04] I think you're better than him.

[00:09:06] What do you think?

[00:09:07] And I don't know what I think, but I'm just out playing as hard as I can.

[00:09:11] He said, you're better than him.

[00:09:12] You're going to be an SEC player of the year someday.

[00:09:16] And that was filling my ego.

[00:09:18] And so instead of avoiding him in the halls and avoiding him when I was seeking him out,

[00:09:25] I was loving this encouragement he was giving me.

[00:09:28] And somebody told me, I don't know if it was Mitch Kupchak or Ernie Grunfeld,

[00:09:33] but a couple guys my age, they said,

[00:09:36] Ernie played for Ray Mears at Tennessee.

[00:09:40] He was part of that Ernie Bernie show.

[00:09:42] Mitch Kupchak played for Dean Smith and I played for Coach Rupp and Joe B. Hall.

[00:09:49] And when we together, we start talking about basketball and what the coaches had

[00:09:55] and the impact they had on you.

[00:09:57] And to the man, they all said that their coach empowered them.

[00:10:01] They gave them encouragement.

[00:10:03] And it was Ernie or Mitch that said,

[00:10:05] you're only going to be as good as the coach thinks you are.

[00:10:09] And if that coach doesn't really think that you can do this or do that,

[00:10:14] he's going to suppress you and he's going to just pitch you in a pigeonhole

[00:10:18] and say, you're a good defender. That's what you do.

[00:10:21] Don't shoot past the ball.

[00:10:23] Man, I was constantly being encouraged and I'd have a good practice.

[00:10:27] They say, you had a good practice, but you can be better.

[00:10:28] You can improve on this.

[00:10:29] You can do that.

[00:10:31] And that is feeding the beast.

[00:10:34] And I had that in high school.

[00:10:38] I never had a bully coach.

[00:10:40] I never had a coach that didn't think I could play or didn't have aspirations for me.

[00:10:48] I had a bad high school coach who was not teaching,

[00:10:52] who was berating me and take the love of the game away from me.

[00:10:58] I would have never, I'm sure I wouldn't have achieved.

[00:11:01] And so at a young age, coaching is so important because the end of the day,

[00:11:07] it's the love of the game.

[00:11:09] Why do you play?

[00:11:11] You played what?

[00:11:12] Just to kill time?

[00:11:13] That's fine.

[00:11:14] There's a lot of other things you can do.

[00:11:16] But if you love the game or whatever it might be,

[00:11:20] whatever sport or whatever career or whatever endeavor,

[00:11:24] if you really enjoy it, you're going to deep dive it.

[00:11:27] You're going to feed for it and learn as much as you can.

[00:11:30] And I was so lucky to have parents that fed me, my high school coach.

[00:11:36] And now when you get to the NBA, they're not going to spoon feed you.

[00:11:40] But I had teammates that also helped me keep the passion and love for the game.

[00:11:46] Before we get to the NBA, tell us about that last college game you ever played.

[00:11:50] It's kind of a bittersweet, Steve.

[00:11:52] I'm having a good day.

[00:11:54] Now you got to bring out the negative.

[00:11:55] You're going to do the negative.

[00:11:55] I did it on purpose, yeah.

[00:11:57] Some people would say that should have been one of the greatest days of your life.

[00:12:02] I was a senior.

[00:12:04] My last game as a college player playing for Kentucky,

[00:12:08] we advanced all the way to the championship game in 1975

[00:12:13] to play UCLA in San Diego.

[00:12:16] And we had a clean sweep of Syracuse and the semifinals,

[00:12:21] UCLA beat Louisville and overtime.

[00:12:24] We were hoping for an all Kentucky final and sure enough,

[00:12:29] UCLA beat Louisville and overtime.

[00:12:31] So we're going to play UCLA in their backyard in San Diego.

[00:12:36] And on Easter Sunday, the day before the championship game on Monday night,

[00:12:43] Coach Woden announced his retirement.

[00:12:46] I remember I was at the San Diego Zoo with my teammates and my family

[00:12:50] and my brothers and sisters.

[00:12:53] We're having a beautiful day in San Diego at the zoo after our practice.

[00:13:00] And right before we boarded the bus, here come the horde of media

[00:13:04] and the cameras.

[00:13:06] And they go to Coach Hall and I.

[00:13:10] And we're having this little mini press conference outside the bus into the zoo.

[00:13:15] And they said, what do you think about Coach Woden retiring?

[00:13:18] His last game will be against you guys tomorrow night.

[00:13:22] I didn't know what to say.

[00:13:23] My jaw dropped.

[00:13:24] I'm like, holy cow.

[00:13:26] And Coach Hall handled the interview.

[00:13:28] He said, Coach Woden is a wonderful coach.

[00:13:30] He can certainly decide when he wants to retire.

[00:13:34] But we're focusing on our team and our mission.

[00:13:38] And we think we're ready for the game.

[00:13:40] But I think we were like a four or five point favorite going in after beating Indiana

[00:13:47] and the Middys regional finals, 92-90.

[00:13:50] Bobby Knight's undefeated team.

[00:13:53] That immediately catapulted us to the number one ranked team in college basketball.

[00:13:58] We go that final four expecting to play maybe Louisville.

[00:14:03] And we beat Syracuse by 20 some points in the semifinal.

[00:14:07] And we were a big favorite to beat UCLA.

[00:14:10] But after he retired, I remember my dad said, what did the coach tell you

[00:14:16] about John Woden retiring for tonight's game?

[00:14:19] And this was on Monday at breakfast.

[00:14:21] And I said, oh, he'd dad, he didn't think it would make any difference.

[00:14:24] He said, let's make a big difference in the line.

[00:14:27] It's now a one point.

[00:14:29] You're only one point favor.

[00:14:31] My dad did a lot of really good things in life, but he shouldn't told me that.

[00:14:36] Because I was like, uh-oh, this is real.

[00:14:39] And we did not play well.

[00:14:41] We didn't deserve to win.

[00:14:43] John Woden had retirement or not.

[00:14:47] They did beat us handily.

[00:14:49] They beat us by five, but we were just not ourselves.

[00:14:53] But I carried this grudge around for a long time.

[00:14:57] There's probably, there can't be too many people that have a grudge against John Woden.

[00:15:02] But I've carried one for a long time that he retired in.

[00:15:07] I just so happened to meet him later and right before he passed away.

[00:15:12] I was, he was at the game at Pauli Pavilion.

[00:15:15] It was an exciting event for me.

[00:15:17] I was broadcasting for CBS Westwood Sports, working with Joel Myers.

[00:15:22] We're doing a scene set before the game.

[00:15:24] Kevin, what do you want to talk about?

[00:15:25] Let's talk about all those banners in Pauli Pavilion.

[00:15:29] And he said, yeah, they're like 12 UCLA banners championships.

[00:15:33] And it was pretty impressive.

[00:15:35] And he says, welcome to CBS game of the week.

[00:15:40] I have all American Kevin Grievi with me.

[00:15:42] I'm Joel Myers.

[00:15:43] We're bringing the game for you this afternoon here, Notre Dame playing UCLA.

[00:15:48] Kevin, we were walking around looking at these banners going all the way back to the early 60s.

[00:15:56] What's your impression?

[00:15:57] And I said, I'm impressed.

[00:15:58] There's no question about it.

[00:16:00] This is like a cathedral and John Woden and all these championships.

[00:16:04] But I said that 1975 banner in the corner, that could be in rough arena.

[00:16:09] If it wasn't for John Woden retiring the night before the game.

[00:16:13] Oh my God, Joel Myers is way to say Kevin, we're live on national TV radio.

[00:16:19] Are you sure you want to say that about Coke?

[00:16:21] I said no, he read his paramedic success and all of that.

[00:16:25] I've tried to downplay it.

[00:16:27] And so the game ends and he's, hey Grievi, you know, that story you told before the game.

[00:16:34] That was probably, you know, you probably shouldn't have said that.

[00:16:37] I said, you really think so?

[00:16:39] We were all having a good time and he's, I said, you think coach Woden will hear about that?

[00:16:44] And he said, he's right behind you.

[00:16:46] And he said, he might say, are you kidding me?

[00:16:49] John Woden's here?

[00:16:50] He said, yeah, go up and say hi to him, Kevin.

[00:16:53] And I guarantee he'll remember you.

[00:16:56] He'll remember the game.

[00:16:58] He'll remember the 34 points you had in that championship game.

[00:17:01] He'll remember everything about you, but whatever you do, don't say that about him retiring.

[00:17:08] And I said, oh no, I won't, but I'm Irish and I did.

[00:17:12] And I went out, I got in line and everybody's getting his autograph and I go up to him and I said,

[00:17:19] coach Woden, I just want to say hello.

[00:17:21] I was broadcasting the game with Joel Myers and we were just talking about this incredible program that you built here at UCLA.

[00:17:32] And I said, the last time I saw you, it was the final four 1975 Kentucky played UCLA and I was on that Kentucky team.

[00:17:40] And he looked at me and he's like, Kevin Grievi, lefty, lefty.

[00:17:45] You had 34 points in that championship game.

[00:17:49] I said, yes sir, I did.

[00:17:51] He said, and his daughter was next to him says this you were at the game.

[00:17:56] This young man here is Kevin Grievi of play to Kentucky.

[00:18:00] Kevin, you had a nice pro career.

[00:18:02] I followed you.

[00:18:03] He was killing me with his kindness.

[00:18:05] He was so nice.

[00:18:06] Such a gentleman.

[00:18:08] And I don't know why I wish I had a Mulligan.

[00:18:11] I don't know why I said it, but I said, coach doing the open.

[00:18:15] We said all these banners and I mentioned that banner in 1975 could be a rubberina if you hadn't retired.

[00:18:23] And this nice man, he nearly dropped his eye glasses when he looked at me and he gave me this weird look and he said maybe if you were to play little defense, you would have walked away from me.

[00:18:37] I'm like, oh my God, the old man zing me again.

[00:18:42] I told Bill Walton that story said, you're a fool.

[00:18:45] You should never disrespect John Wooten like that.

[00:18:48] And I'm like, I held a grudge.

[00:18:50] I said it and I told some people from mobile that were big UCLA fans.

[00:18:56] Oh, John Wooten would never do that.

[00:18:58] He would never say that to you.

[00:19:01] He said it to me.

[00:19:03] He said it to me.

[00:19:04] I'm not making it up.

[00:19:06] I don't want to gloss over.

[00:19:07] You mentioned this a couple of times, but 34 points in a championship game is unbelievable.

[00:19:13] That's honestly incredible.

[00:19:15] And not only that, I'm looking at the stats right now.

[00:19:18] Eight of 10 free throws, right?

[00:19:21] So you shot 80% from the line, five total rebounds and assist, a steal.

[00:19:26] I look like you played a little bit of defense.

[00:19:28] That's unbelievable.

[00:19:30] Thank you.

[00:19:30] I look back on that game and I don't think we win me scoring 34 points.

[00:19:36] We needed more contribution from everybody and our big guys, Rick Roby and Mike Phillips

[00:19:44] and Jack Gibbons was a terrific freshman and Bob Guy, everybody who had subpar games

[00:19:50] and even with my 34 points, I was hunting shots because I saw my teammates

[00:19:58] mishandle the ball.

[00:19:59] We've been in our offense and a seamless play for Rick Roby diving to the basket.

[00:20:05] He catch it, he fumble it or he miss it.

[00:20:08] And it frustrated me and I tried to do more than I should have.

[00:20:13] But yeah, I ended with 34, but that's a real consolation to not winning the championship.

[00:20:19] Now we go to the NBA.

[00:20:21] You're a first year player with the bullets.

[00:20:23] You had this coach that I like because part of Casey Jones.

[00:20:29] How'd that work out?

[00:20:32] Casey was a big fan of rookies.

[00:20:34] I was a big fan of Casey, but I don't think he was a big fan of me, the rookie.

[00:20:39] I didn't get off to a good start in my pro career.

[00:20:42] My first year was that 75-76 season.

[00:20:46] I think I averaged like six or seven points a game.

[00:20:50] I had a lot of DMPs and he told me straight up, Kevin, you're on a veteran team.

[00:20:56] That was a team that had just gone to the championship but got swept by the Golden State Warriors.

[00:21:03] Rick Berry was a star player and they swept the bullet.

[00:21:07] Casey Jones was going back to those veterans and so he told me practice should be your game.

[00:21:13] You got to practice like this is game day.

[00:21:17] I'll assess you at practice because you're not going to get the play much.

[00:21:21] I didn't get the play and it was just garbage minutes.

[00:21:24] I remember going to practice and doing the best I could and trying to learn from my veteran players that were around me.

[00:21:33] It was lonely and it was frustrating.

[00:21:35] It was the first real failure I think I had in basketball.

[00:21:40] There would be some doubt.

[00:21:41] I had a little lack of confidence.

[00:21:43] What did I do?

[00:21:45] I go back to Kentucky where I was familiar after my rookie year and rejuvenate myself playing with those players.

[00:21:54] New player Sam Bowie had just signed.

[00:21:57] He's come into Kentucky.

[00:21:58] Those games in Kentucky were like almost a minor league NBA game.

[00:22:03] To be able to compete every day and get my confidence back, it helped.

[00:22:08] I'll tell you a story how hard it was to play.

[00:22:13] Casey Jones would wait till we were up by 20 or 25 points before he would empty the bench.

[00:22:19] It was awful.

[00:22:21] I've never had a chance I felt to really get the play.

[00:22:25] And sure enough, there's two stories.

[00:22:28] I was like 12th man of a 12-man roster.

[00:22:32] All of a sudden during middle of the year guys are going down.

[00:22:36] Truck Robinson got hurt.

[00:22:38] Nick Weatherspoon got hurt.

[00:22:40] Clem Haskins got hurt.

[00:22:42] Dave Bain got hurt.

[00:22:43] Next thing I know, they're going to have to play me.

[00:22:46] There's seven guys.

[00:22:48] And so Casey Jones, Abe Rook, are you ready?

[00:22:50] We're on a West Coast trip.

[00:22:51] We're in Portland.

[00:22:52] He said, Rook, are you ready?

[00:22:53] I said, I've been ready since November.

[00:22:57] Cack, Casey.

[00:22:58] So Cack, yes, I'm ready.

[00:23:00] He said, I'm coming to you.

[00:23:01] I'm coming to you early in this game at Portland.

[00:23:03] Portland, my God.

[00:23:05] They had Bill Walton and they were a great team.

[00:23:09] They had ended up winning the championship that year.

[00:23:12] So my rookie year, first time I had any minutes,

[00:23:16] dad gone out.

[00:23:16] I got hot.

[00:23:18] And I had 18 points at halftime.

[00:23:21] And so I'm feeling great about myself finally.

[00:23:25] I'm making it.

[00:23:26] We go out in the third quarter after warming up and Cack said,

[00:23:30] Griebi, I'm coming to you.

[00:23:32] You're going to start here in the third quarter.

[00:23:35] And he said, okay guys, what play do you all want to run?

[00:23:39] And like a dummy, I said, let's run two down.

[00:23:42] That's my play.

[00:23:43] He's, oh my God.

[00:23:45] Rookie is calling his own place now.

[00:23:48] Rookie is calling his own place.

[00:23:50] Hey guys, do you believe this?

[00:23:53] He makes a few baskets and he thinks he's all pro.

[00:23:56] He's calling his own place.

[00:23:58] He's, he embarrassed me so bad.

[00:24:01] I played like crap the second half.

[00:24:04] That was Elvin.

[00:24:05] Most of my teammates were terrific.

[00:24:08] Elvin could be a little testy.

[00:24:10] And one last story towards end of the year,

[00:24:13] Casey Jones is like, Hey Griebi, you ready to go?

[00:24:16] And I said, yeah, I'm ready to play.

[00:24:18] It's like second, third, last game of the season.

[00:24:21] And he said, going free.

[00:24:24] Elvin hates.

[00:24:25] So I leaned down at the scores table.

[00:24:28] Griebi for haze and Elvin shooting a free throw.

[00:24:32] And he looks and he said, you coming in for me?

[00:24:36] And I said, yeah.

[00:24:37] And he goes, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm coming in for you.

[00:24:41] He takes the shot.

[00:24:43] He makes the second shot.

[00:24:44] The horn goes off.

[00:24:46] I'm going out on the floor.

[00:24:47] He says, no, you're not coming in for me.

[00:24:50] And I made a mistake looking at Casey Jones and Casey said,

[00:24:54] Griebi, come on back.

[00:24:56] And I had to take myself out of the game.

[00:24:59] Couldn't even get in the game when the coach was putting me in.

[00:25:02] So it was frustrating having to deal with that kind of stuff,

[00:25:06] but I learned a lot.

[00:25:07] How about the horse tournament that year?

[00:25:10] The CBS horse tournament was filmed in the summer of 1976

[00:25:15] after my rookie year.

[00:25:17] And that really gave me a lot of confidence.

[00:25:19] And the only reason I represented the bullets is Elvin was in

[00:25:23] use and he didn't want to do it.

[00:25:24] And he said, Wes on sale.

[00:25:25] He was running his day school that he and his wife had just opened

[00:25:30] up. He couldn't do it.

[00:25:32] I was like the only bullet in town.

[00:25:34] And so Bob Ferries said, hey, Griebi,

[00:25:37] do you have your uniform at the house?

[00:25:39] I said, I do.

[00:25:40] He said, catch flight to Atlanta.

[00:25:42] You're going to represent the bullets in the CBS horse

[00:25:45] contest.

[00:25:46] Are you good to go?

[00:25:47] And he said, I think for attending,

[00:25:49] they'll at least guarantee you $1,000.

[00:25:52] $1,000 to a rookie was a lot of money.

[00:25:55] I'm like, heck yeah.

[00:25:56] I jumped on that plane, ran there.

[00:25:57] I had no idea what I was getting into.

[00:25:59] And so grateful that the veteran players weren't around to

[00:26:03] represent us.

[00:26:04] And I did.

[00:26:05] And I advanced.

[00:26:07] I ended up beating Al Skinner,

[00:26:10] Joe Joe White and Rudy Tom Johnovich to then meet

[00:26:16] pistol P Merovich in the semifinals.

[00:26:19] And it was every level I went,

[00:26:21] it gave me more confidence.

[00:26:23] But I had trick shots.

[00:26:25] I had a good offhand.

[00:26:27] I had hook shots.

[00:26:28] I could jump.

[00:26:30] Good makeup shots.

[00:26:32] And every time you advance,

[00:26:33] you'd be on a side basket.

[00:26:35] And then I started hanging out with Paul Westfall

[00:26:40] and pistol P.

[00:26:41] And I'm like, hey, that little spin shot you did.

[00:26:44] Can you show me that?

[00:26:45] They're showing me it.

[00:26:45] They're sharing their tricks with me.

[00:26:48] And I was in using those against Joe Joe White and Rudy T.

[00:26:53] And I went all the way.

[00:26:55] And I remember my brother who's playing at

[00:26:59] the University of South Carolina,

[00:27:00] I said, Brian, I'm here in Atlanta.

[00:27:02] And I got an all expense paid for me and my wife

[00:27:06] or girlfriend.

[00:27:07] You can come.

[00:27:09] Come on in.

[00:27:10] I said, but just bring a jacket because I'm going

[00:27:13] to compete in the semifinal tomorrow against

[00:27:15] pistol P.

[00:27:16] And they got a nice spread on the top of the omni.

[00:27:20] And so he drove over.

[00:27:21] He comes to my room, gives me his jacket and we're

[00:27:24] getting on the elevator.

[00:27:25] And here's this beautiful girl on the elevator.

[00:27:27] And I had my basketball uniform and my brother said,

[00:27:34] Kevin, that girl's pretty nice looking.

[00:27:36] Y'all say something to her.

[00:27:37] And I did.

[00:27:38] I'm feeling pretty good.

[00:27:39] And I said, are you going to the party tonight?

[00:27:41] Are you here for the horse contest?

[00:27:42] I said, I am.

[00:27:44] And I said, Oh, great.

[00:27:45] I said, do you have a friend?

[00:27:46] This is my brother.

[00:27:47] He said, yeah, I have friends.

[00:27:49] I have friends up there.

[00:27:50] And I said, oh, cool.

[00:27:51] Let's go and be a fun night.

[00:27:53] So I put on my suit.

[00:27:55] I go up to the very top.

[00:27:57] Who do I see pistol piece?

[00:27:59] Ah, Grievi, you're firing on my wife.

[00:28:01] I went, oh my God.

[00:28:04] I said, you've got no chance tomorrow.

[00:28:07] And then pistol laughed and he was really nice.

[00:28:09] And that really led into a friendship that I had with him

[00:28:14] for years while he was playing for New Orleans

[00:28:17] and finished his career with Celtics.

[00:28:19] And every time we would play, and pistol was an idol of mine

[00:28:23] growing up in high school, the floppy socks and the bushy hair.

[00:28:28] And I just wanted to be like pistol.

[00:28:30] And then to be able to get to meet him and play against him

[00:28:33] and then get to become friends with him.

[00:28:36] I was like, this is really amazing.

[00:28:38] And it was a good friendship that we had.

[00:28:41] Next, Mike Reardon, tell us about your first meeting with him.

[00:28:45] Steve, if we could before, and I'm sorry to interrupt,

[00:28:49] but I watched that game, the game,

[00:28:51] the horse game against JoJo White.

[00:28:53] Kevin, I saw it.

[00:28:54] It was riveting.

[00:28:55] I thought I was going to click for 15 seconds.

[00:28:57] I watched the whole thing.

[00:28:59] It was really, it was great TV.

[00:29:03] And you said at the start of this interview, right?

[00:29:05] At this conversation that you had that killer instinct, right?

[00:29:09] You were going to win.

[00:29:11] I saw that in that JoJo White game.

[00:29:15] You got H, you got him O.

[00:29:17] And then all of a sudden you did one shot where it was behind the line.

[00:29:20] You were taller than him.

[00:29:21] So I assumed longer too.

[00:29:24] And you did this layup on the other side with your off hand.

[00:29:28] It was a crazy shot.

[00:29:30] And there was no way JoJo White was going to get close to making that.

[00:29:32] That's the one shot he made as I recall.

[00:29:34] That's right.

[00:29:36] I scouted JoJo White and his previous,

[00:29:39] I'm trying to win this damn thing.

[00:29:40] So I'm looking at guys who can shoot, who can't shoot,

[00:29:45] who's not real good with the ball.

[00:29:47] Who doesn't have a good off hand?

[00:29:49] And surprisingly, JoJo White did not have a good left hand.

[00:29:54] An off hand.

[00:29:55] He was right handed.

[00:29:56] And I did.

[00:29:57] I could spin the ball with either hand.

[00:29:59] I was taught how to shoot.

[00:30:01] In fact, around the basket, my high school coach always felt like

[00:30:06] you have to shoot away from the defense.

[00:30:10] So if the defense is here and you can't go back into that defender,

[00:30:14] you get shot blocked.

[00:30:15] You've got to use your body shield, use your off hand.

[00:30:17] I practiced so much with my off hand.

[00:30:21] I actually got better around the basket with my right hand than I did my left.

[00:30:26] But back in that era, if you watch old films,

[00:30:29] even the greatest, Jerry West, Oscar Robinson, John Havichek,

[00:30:35] they didn't have good off hands.

[00:30:37] They really didn't.

[00:30:39] They weren't ambidextrous.

[00:30:40] They were just strong handed and they never worked on that other part.

[00:30:45] And Jo White was one of those older veterans who had a weak hand.

[00:30:48] I took advantage of him using my off hand.

[00:30:51] It was good scouting and it was taking advantage of...

[00:30:56] Who is a better basketball player?

[00:30:58] Come on, Jo-Jo White was a great player.

[00:31:01] But he was in my element.

[00:31:04] He was in my world horse contest.

[00:31:06] But it was fun and Mindy Rudolph was refereeing it.

[00:31:10] They had rules that you had to buy by.

[00:31:12] And there were the greats that were competing in that.

[00:31:16] Bob Lanier and George Gurvin and Paul Westfall, pistol P.

[00:31:22] But it's funny.

[00:31:23] Sometimes great players are not good at certain parts of the game.

[00:31:31] And I was able to pick on some of the games.

[00:31:34] Rudy Tomjadovic, there wasn't a better jump shooter in the pro game.

[00:31:40] Six, seven great shooter.

[00:31:42] And he was early in my CBS horse contest and I beat him at his best, his jumper.

[00:31:50] I just matched him jumper for jumper.

[00:31:52] And they had to edit that thing.

[00:31:54] We must have made 20 straight jump shots, he and I.

[00:31:57] And I was like, I'm not going to yield.

[00:31:59] I'm not going to go away from the jump shot.

[00:32:02] I had the lead, I kept doing it, he kept making it, kept doing it, kept making it.

[00:32:06] Finally he missed and I felt a crack in Rudy T.

[00:32:11] And if Rudy T end up working for the Lakers, he was the head coach.

[00:32:16] I was scouting for 20 years for the Lakers for Mitch Gubczyk.

[00:32:20] When Rudy joined and we get in the car and I said, Rudy, it's so great to see you.

[00:32:25] I haven't seen you, I think since that the filming of the CBS horse contest at the Omni.

[00:32:30] He's a damn agree be.

[00:32:32] I hated losing to you.

[00:32:33] I did not like that.

[00:32:35] That really upset me.

[00:32:36] I brought my wife, my daughter to Atlanta and you sent me on an early exit.

[00:32:42] You know, you don't forget those kind of things.

[00:32:45] And it was funny, Rudy.

[00:32:46] I was finally able to get one on Rudy because he was a great player too.

[00:32:51] That's awesome.

[00:32:52] We'll make sure to link that below if you're interested.

[00:32:54] It is definitely worth a watch.

[00:32:56] It was really fun to watch that game.

[00:32:58] And I won't, if I could, I'm going to ask one more and I'm going to give it back to you, Steve.

[00:33:02] But you said that Pistol Pete was a player you admired and a player you wanted to be like.

[00:33:07] One of the things that Steve and I have tried to do during this off season show is take the players from the past

[00:33:14] and link them to the players of the present.

[00:33:16] Who was most like Will Chamberlain?

[00:33:19] Who was most like Pistol Pete?

[00:33:20] Who is most like Jerry West?

[00:33:22] I'm curious, Kevin, as you watch the game now, who resembles the style of play that you have in the NBA?

[00:33:31] Who's the Kevin Grievi of today?

[00:33:33] That's a great question.

[00:33:35] As a NBA scout, when we sit around the room and we're talking about young up-and-coming players who are in the draft,

[00:33:44] we use comps.

[00:33:46] Who does he remind you of?

[00:33:47] Who does he play?

[00:33:48] What skill set does he have that reminds you?

[00:33:52] And sometimes I date myself because when I'm sitting with these younger scouts, I'll pull up a guy.

[00:33:59] And I'll say, I was with the Hornets last year.

[00:34:03] We are two years ago.

[00:34:04] We drafted Brandon Miller, who was Alabama, all-American, freshman.

[00:34:10] And we're like, who does he remind you of?

[00:34:12] And some of the younger scouts were like, man, he reminds me quite Leonard a little bit.

[00:34:18] Six, seven.

[00:34:19] And guys, that's a good comp.

[00:34:22] But I have one better.

[00:34:24] He's Bobby Dandridge.

[00:34:26] And they're like, who's Bobby Dandridge?

[00:34:27] I think he's a hall of famer, teammate of mine with the Washington Bullets and Mitch Kupjakes.

[00:34:32] Oh my God.

[00:34:33] Guys, you got to Google Bobby Dandridge.

[00:34:36] He was only the best small four in the NBA.

[00:34:39] What's wrong with you guys?

[00:34:40] But your answer or your question, I'll give you an answer.

[00:34:44] When I was first scouting, Chris Mullen left-hander, six, five, six, six.

[00:34:51] Good God, Chris was great.

[00:34:52] He was a better player than I was.

[00:34:55] But that's how I played.

[00:34:57] And then later on, JJ Redick, who was a great shooter at Duke and 16, now coached with the Lakers.

[00:35:05] JJ and I actually met JJ Redick, my daughter's best friend.

[00:35:10] JJ is from Roanoke, Virginia, and I'm living here in Virginia.

[00:35:14] And he would train here in Washington, D.C.

[00:35:16] and he was dating my daughter's close friend.

[00:35:21] He came to my house, Jay, and I spoke to Jay, but I had to keep distance because he was with Duke and I'm an NBA scout.

[00:35:29] And now Statue of Limitations, there's no problem now.

[00:35:32] But then I was like, oh my God, I don't know if JJ should be here in my house.

[00:35:37] And anyway, I spoke to him.

[00:35:39] He was with Shatly Randolph.

[00:35:42] That was his good friend.

[00:35:45] And the two of them were here at the house.

[00:35:47] And I said, listen, it's nice seeing you all.

[00:35:50] I got to go.

[00:35:52] I have a tennis match.

[00:35:53] I'm playing senior tennis match.

[00:35:56] I get it in my car and I'm blocked.

[00:35:59] JJ Redick locked his keys in his car and I missed my tennis match.

[00:36:05] I came back in called triple.

[00:36:07] I said, JJ, if I told Coach K this, what would he do?

[00:36:12] He wouldn't be very happy with you.

[00:36:13] You owe me one, pal.

[00:36:15] I can't wait to see Jay again and remind him, Jay, you locked your keys in the car.

[00:36:21] I'll never forgive you for that.

[00:36:22] I missed my tennis match.

[00:36:24] Jose, you want to ask the obvious next JJ Redick question?

[00:36:28] Steve, thank you.

[00:36:30] It's jumping at the bit when you said JJ Redick.

[00:36:33] I've been sitting on this one and it may not be terribly fair to ask,

[00:36:37] but I'm so curious.

[00:36:38] JJ Redick, while we're on the subject and you like your coach said,

[00:36:43] and I want to get your thoughts on this,

[00:36:44] said not too long ago, not about your era,

[00:36:47] but more about Bob Coosie's era that they played against Plumbers and Fireman.

[00:36:50] He got a lot of grief for that.

[00:36:52] What did he say?

[00:36:53] I'm sorry, Jose.

[00:36:55] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:36:55] He said that essentially he alluded to the factor implied that Bob Coosie's

[00:37:00] numbers didn't matter as much because, and this is a quote,

[00:37:04] he played against Plumbers and Fireman.

[00:37:07] He effectively said he played against guys who weren't that good, right?

[00:37:11] These are guys who had to get second jobs.

[00:37:13] They weren't that talented.

[00:37:15] And then Anthony Edwards recently said that Michael Jordan was the only one

[00:37:20] who had any skill in the 90s and Magic Johnson and other folks have come

[00:37:25] out against him.

[00:37:26] And to me it's just, it's wild because we always want to say who was better,

[00:37:30] Wilt or Shaq, who was better?

[00:37:32] The 84 Lakers or the 96 Bulls.

[00:37:36] And it's impossible I think really to do that apples to apples.

[00:37:39] But when you hear these kind of things, people devaluing the play of the past,

[00:37:44] what do you think about that?

[00:37:45] What does that make you think?

[00:37:47] It's disrespecting the game.

[00:37:48] I think it's ridiculous.

[00:37:49] I do listen in my era in the 70s and 80s, these guys were incredible.

[00:37:58] Okay. They were ballers for their time.

[00:38:00] Maybe their careers were a little shorter because we didn't have massage therapists.

[00:38:05] We didn't have chefs.

[00:38:07] We didn't fly charter planes.

[00:38:09] We had it a lot tougher.

[00:38:12] And the money was so bad that some guys had to be plumbers and carpenters

[00:38:19] and teachers and coaches.

[00:38:22] You had to get a second job.

[00:38:24] And I looked up to those guys before me, the people that we talked about,

[00:38:31] Jerry West and Oscar Robinson and all those greats watching those guys play.

[00:38:37] So to say that about another era is, I just think foolish.

[00:38:43] This way I look at it.

[00:38:45] Just go Google and watch those guys play and watch how rough it was.

[00:38:50] The game today, for me to disparage the game today would be foolish.

[00:38:55] I think it's a great game.

[00:38:57] It's fun. It's exciting. It's faster.

[00:39:00] It's more athletic.

[00:39:01] But there are some things I don't like about the game today.

[00:39:05] And I don't think we utilize all the players on the floor.

[00:39:11] There's not a lot of free flowing movement.

[00:39:13] There's not a lot of plays and structure.

[00:39:16] Steve and I, we were talking about centers.

[00:39:18] How centers have been passed by all they become the screeners, passers,

[00:39:23] rebounders and some of them we asked to be able to shoot three point shots.

[00:39:29] So the game has evolved.

[00:39:31] I love the game.

[00:39:32] I love watching the old players play on video on the black and white.

[00:39:37] And I love the game today and I like to see the evolve.

[00:39:40] The game wouldn't be what it is today if it wasn't for the Cousins.

[00:39:46] And if it wasn't for those older guys.

[00:39:50] So I think it's just a shallow thing to say about the period before you.

[00:39:55] What I was going to before was you told me a little story about the

[00:39:59] first time you met up with Mike Reardon.

[00:40:01] Oh, yeah.

[00:40:03] He had a nickname Jose is Iron Mike.

[00:40:07] Anybody that's named Iron Mike, you better watch out.

[00:40:12] All right.

[00:40:12] My career was one of the toughest 6 3 6 4 players in the NBA.

[00:40:18] Nobody got more out of his skill set and his body than Mike Reardon.

[00:40:22] And it happened to be the guy that I'm going to replace on the Washington Bullets.

[00:40:27] Iron Mike wasn't going to give up that job easily in his ninth or

[00:40:31] 10th year in the NBA.

[00:40:32] And I'm a rookie and he didn't.

[00:40:35] He won the job and I never got to play my rookie year behind Mike.

[00:40:40] I've just getting token minutes, but when I arrived in Washington,

[00:40:44] Bob Farre my general manager, I get there in July.

[00:40:47] The season starts in October.

[00:40:49] He said, Grievi, I want you to call this number.

[00:40:52] This is Mike Reardon and work out with Mike.

[00:40:55] He said, you're in shape.

[00:40:56] I said, oh hell yeah.

[00:40:57] I've been doing the Kentucky running program, lifting weights,

[00:41:00] playing every afternoon.

[00:41:02] He said, good call Mike.

[00:41:04] He'll work you out.

[00:41:05] So I go to Annapolis, Maryland.

[00:41:08] I go to his house.

[00:41:09] Mike was gracious enough.

[00:41:11] He said, you want me to drive or I'll drive?

[00:41:12] I said, I'll drive Mike.

[00:41:14] And I get in my car and we drive to Annapolis Naval Academy.

[00:41:19] We go on the track.

[00:41:21] We run Jose.

[00:41:22] We lift weights.

[00:41:23] We play.

[00:41:24] We shoot.

[00:41:25] Then we do noon hour and I get there and I'm like, that's three hours of practice.

[00:41:29] And I'm like, I'm dead.

[00:41:31] And then afternoon hour at the Naval Academy with the plebs and the officers.

[00:41:36] These guys weren't that good, but you're going up and down full court.

[00:41:40] And now it's 12 o'clock.

[00:41:41] Man, I just couldn't wait to get back to my apartment and lay down.

[00:41:45] I dropped Mike.

[00:41:46] I'm taking back to this driveway.

[00:41:48] And he said, now listen, we're going to Maryland this afternoon at three o'clock.

[00:41:53] Go ahead, get lunch.

[00:41:54] I'll pick you up at your apartment and we're going to play open gym.

[00:41:58] Lethia Giselle has his players and the pros that are in the city.

[00:42:04] There'll be Adrian Dantley will be there, Ricky Sobers, Jeff Ruehler and all these guys.

[00:42:09] I'm like, really?

[00:42:10] He said, oh yeah, we're going to play from three to six over there.

[00:42:14] I'm like, holy cow.

[00:42:16] I could barely walk that afternoon when I got back to my apartment, but Mike showed

[00:42:22] me what a pro has to do to play in this league.

[00:42:25] And it was just great lessons that I learned from Mike Reardon.

[00:42:31] It's so interesting to me because when I see someone excel in college, right?

[00:42:38] Just have a phenomenal career, great shooter.

[00:42:41] You see all the potential in the world and then they get to the NBA.

[00:42:45] In my mind's eyes, I was a fan.

[00:42:47] I think before I started digging a little deeper, you think it's the same

[00:42:50] game, man.

[00:42:50] It's the same game.

[00:42:52] But the people you're playing against are different.

[00:42:54] It's dead beat high.

[00:42:56] It's still the same, but it's a different game, right?

[00:42:59] It's a different level of competition.

[00:43:01] Is that fair to say between college and the NBA?

[00:43:03] I think it goes back to the scouting.

[00:43:06] And Kevin, you do that when you walk into a gym or a college, one of the

[00:43:12] things that we talked about this, you assess right away what kind of

[00:43:15] work ethic that person has because the person who wants to put in the

[00:43:19] time, Kobe Bryant is a great example.

[00:43:23] He's going to advance his game.

[00:43:25] And if he doesn't, and we talked about a couple of people like that,

[00:43:28] but I don't want to get into that, but those people don't advance

[00:43:32] your game and they end up out of the game in a year or two.

[00:43:35] Really what it comes down to, yes, you have to have the physical

[00:43:38] gifts to be able to play at that next level, the NBA.

[00:43:43] It's a huge jump from college to pro.

[00:43:46] It's a high level.

[00:43:48] Guys are knocking on the door trying to get into the NBA.

[00:43:52] What's keeping a guy from the G league or a French player from

[00:43:57] making it?

[00:43:58] There's only so many jobs and it's competitive.

[00:44:01] There's a couple of things.

[00:44:02] First of all, you have to have the skill.

[00:44:04] You've got to have today's NBA skill.

[00:44:09] You've got to be a versatile, wary, athletic, skilled player

[00:44:15] that can shoot dribble pass who can defend an open court.

[00:44:20] You don't have the game was packed in and you have a big seven footer

[00:44:25] standing back there protecting the rim like a goalie.

[00:44:27] That big seven footer maybe out on the floor.

[00:44:31] And so you're naked defensively and it's, it requires a better

[00:44:35] defender to play the game today than it did in my era.

[00:44:39] A more versatile player who can switch and guard,

[00:44:43] guard, guard forward.

[00:44:44] So I'm giving you a little bit of the kind of the skill set that

[00:44:48] it takes, but what separates?

[00:44:51] What separates is a talented guy that has the work ethic of iron

[00:44:57] Mike Reardon, a guy who's willing to put six, eight, ten hours in.

[00:45:03] Not everybody can do that day after day after day.

[00:45:06] You might be able to do it at training camp or you can do it

[00:45:10] for a short period of time, but you start losing interest.

[00:45:15] It's painful.

[00:45:16] It's hard.

[00:45:16] It's a grind, but if you love the process,

[00:45:21] if you love the work and this is what it's going to make you better.

[00:45:26] There are very few people that have ever put themselves to the

[00:45:31] point of failure.

[00:45:33] Have there was a exercise program called super slow and it

[00:45:39] was invented about 30 or 40 years ago and I,

[00:45:43] and it was track and field guys were doing it.

[00:45:46] And you literally, you go real slow with the weight and then

[00:45:51] even go slower on the resistance way down,

[00:45:54] slows and slower to the point where you can't do it anymore.

[00:46:01] The muscles are quivering and you fail.

[00:46:04] You do that with your legs.

[00:46:07] You do it with your buttocks.

[00:46:09] You do it with your core and you do it with your arms.

[00:46:12] You do it with their shoulders.

[00:46:14] When you're done, you're releasing so much acid that you're

[00:46:18] dry heaving and you do that.

[00:46:22] Now who in the right mind would do a super slow?

[00:46:25] I was doing it because I knew it would make me stronger

[00:46:28] and I did it for about three years.

[00:46:32] Now I got used to it and I got used to the pain and I got

[00:46:36] used to the failure and I look forward to the failure.

[00:46:40] What I'm saying, I did that to my body.

[00:46:43] I also did that running.

[00:46:45] I would run two twenties.

[00:46:47] I would run them in 32 seconds, walk across the football

[00:46:51] field 32 seconds, do it again in 32 seconds and I would see

[00:46:55] how many I could do until I couldn't run it in 32 seconds

[00:47:01] and it's amazing how your body builds up the

[00:47:05] tolerance and I could get there to where I could go to 12

[00:47:11] or 13 or 14, two twenties until where I couldn't run it in

[00:47:16] 32 seconds or less.

[00:47:18] And then I would do that shooting and I would shoot a

[00:47:21] thousand shots at game speed and I'd work up to that.

[00:47:27] And I felt like I had to do that because I wasn't the

[00:47:31] most talented.

[00:47:32] I didn't want anybody to out work me and I would try to

[00:47:36] find another teammate of the same mindset that had that

[00:47:41] kind of work ethic that you could share and we could each

[00:47:45] push ourselves through it.

[00:47:47] My career was when I was a freshman or a rookie in the

[00:47:51] NBA and then Mitch Kupchett came after my rookie year

[00:47:56] and he joined me.

[00:47:59] He was the same damn way.

[00:48:00] He was a little obsessed like I was and we would push one

[00:48:05] another and do a lot of those things together.

[00:48:07] And I think not every, did Iceman do that?

[00:48:12] George Gerben?

[00:48:13] Hell no.

[00:48:14] He was six nine guard.

[00:48:15] He didn't have to.

[00:48:17] I had to if I was going to play 10 years in the NBA and

[00:48:21] stay fit be the best conditioned.

[00:48:24] And so it was just knowing who you are and how you

[00:48:27] can fit and then just not going to be denied.

[00:48:31] One of the things, oh I'm sorry Steve.

[00:48:34] I'm sorry.

[00:48:35] Talking, we were lucky enough to talk to Scott Foster

[00:48:39] about a week ago and one of the big revelations to

[00:48:42] me was the amount of work he puts in.

[00:48:45] And it was always for me a real respect with

[00:48:48] referees but I have so much more after talking to

[00:48:50] him and hearing you talk about what you just

[00:48:53] talked about to me is eye opening because as a

[00:48:57] fan you just sit there and you see somebody miss an

[00:48:59] open shot and you go why didn't you make that?

[00:49:01] We're so dumb as fans sometimes but the amount of

[00:49:04] work that it puts in that you all have to put in

[00:49:07] to be, to have that 10 year NBA career is pretty

[00:49:12] amazing.

[00:49:12] And this has been real eye opening for me.

[00:49:15] You did play for 10 years and in looking at your

[00:49:18] stats I found it interesting that you were in

[00:49:22] the league during the transition to the 3 point

[00:49:25] play.

[00:49:26] Oh yeah.

[00:49:27] And that changed the game and I remember

[00:49:30] initially it didn't really have much of an impact.

[00:49:33] You watch games from the 80s where the line is

[00:49:35] there but everybody's playing in the post-it.

[00:49:37] That's right.

[00:49:38] It took a while to really acclimate and now

[00:49:40] you're seeing 90 shots a game.

[00:49:43] What was it like for you playing in that, what

[00:49:45] was it, the 79-80 season when the 3 point

[00:49:48] shot came into play?

[00:49:49] You took some and you made some.

[00:49:50] What was that like for you and what was it like

[00:49:52] for the NBA in general?

[00:49:54] Coaches didn't use it much unless it was end of

[00:49:57] a half or quarter or end of a game.

[00:50:00] I remember it was not even discussed in training

[00:50:04] camp until like maybe the 2nd or 3rd day

[00:50:09] before our first game.

[00:50:12] And Dick Monowitz, the coach, he was annoyed

[00:50:15] because the rules he said the next thing we're

[00:50:20] going to do is bring the red, white and blue ball.

[00:50:21] We bring the ABN, now we got cheerleaders,

[00:50:24] we got music in the arena, we've got the

[00:50:27] 3 point shot, alarm goes off when somebody

[00:50:30] makes it's a damn circus.

[00:50:32] He said what happened?

[00:50:34] What's going on with the NBA?

[00:50:36] In the purists, the Red Artbacks and they

[00:50:39] were not happy about this.

[00:50:41] They didn't think this was a good idea.

[00:50:44] And so almost to a point where okay,

[00:50:48] damn it, you're going to bring this in,

[00:50:49] you're not going to have any coaches part of the

[00:50:51] rules committee.

[00:50:53] Nobody's going to shoot the 3 point shot.

[00:50:55] Screw the 3 point shot.

[00:50:56] We didn't have it at training camp.

[00:50:58] We didn't have a 3 point line.

[00:51:00] And even at some of the arenas we went to

[00:51:03] it was taped on.

[00:51:04] It wasn't even painted on.

[00:51:06] It was the empathy of the game.

[00:51:09] And I remember I hit the first

[00:51:13] 3 point shot that I on the first

[00:51:15] game against the New York Knicks.

[00:51:17] I caught the ball.

[00:51:19] It was about 5, 6 minutes into the

[00:51:21] game.

[00:51:22] Caught it squared up and I hear no

[00:51:25] in front of the bench and I knocked it down.

[00:51:28] And at the time I thought I made the

[00:51:30] first 3 pointer in NBA history.

[00:51:32] A lot of people did but it turned out to be

[00:51:34] Chris Ford who beat me maybe by a

[00:51:36] minute or two.

[00:51:39] And yeah, so anyway

[00:51:42] by the end of the season

[00:51:44] Oze Steve there was a thing called

[00:51:47] the Greavy Rule on the bullets back then.

[00:51:50] Nobody was allowed to shoot the 3

[00:51:53] point shot but Greavy.

[00:51:54] And if he sees it he feels it.

[00:51:57] He can shoot it.

[00:51:58] I was one of the league leaders in

[00:52:00] the 3 point shot that year and it

[00:52:03] was like 37% or something.

[00:52:06] But that was considered a high percentage

[00:52:09] back then.

[00:52:10] It was weird.

[00:52:11] Kevin, there's two things.

[00:52:14] One thing I want to do, I want to take

[00:52:15] us through that championship season.

[00:52:18] And then the other thing I wanted

[00:52:19] to do and I wanted to throw in a

[00:52:21] Oze would work with me, throw some names

[00:52:23] out and just like a one sentence

[00:52:25] or two sentence reaction.

[00:52:28] Makes sense? Yeah.

[00:52:29] But first take us through that championship season.

[00:52:31] That was my third year in the league

[00:52:33] and I was fortunate to be

[00:52:35] one of the starting guards on that team

[00:52:37] with Tommy Henderson in the back court.

[00:52:39] Tommy, Bob Ferry was probably

[00:52:42] the reason we won the championship.

[00:52:44] Our general manager, he made

[00:52:46] the trade.

[00:52:48] Truck Robinson for Tommy

[00:52:49] Henderson.

[00:52:51] Tommy becomes a starter.

[00:52:53] He signs Bobby Dandridge to

[00:52:55] a free agent contract.

[00:52:57] Bobby Dandridge was in Milwaukee,

[00:52:59] joins the bullets.

[00:53:01] And Phil Cheneer who was

[00:53:03] a great player in the back

[00:53:05] court injured his back

[00:53:06] and they moved me

[00:53:08] from small forward

[00:53:10] to shooting guard.

[00:53:12] So it's Tommy and myself in the back

[00:53:14] court Phil Cheneer's beat up

[00:53:16] coming off the bench a little bit

[00:53:18] and the front line

[00:53:20] Jose you said when you introduced

[00:53:22] me, Bobby Dandridge Hall of Fame

[00:53:24] West Sunsell Hall of Fame

[00:53:26] Elvin Hayes Hall of Fame

[00:53:28] that front line

[00:53:30] was as good a front line

[00:53:32] in the NBA for about 10 or 20

[00:53:34] years. Then the bird

[00:53:36] Parish McHale

[00:53:38] came a little bit later but

[00:53:40] our front line was the dominant

[00:53:42] part of that team and we felt like

[00:53:44] we could win every game we took the floor on

[00:53:46] when we were healthy

[00:53:48] but that was a big part

[00:53:50] of that season, the regular season

[00:53:52] we still today have

[00:53:54] the worst regular season record

[00:53:57] for any

[00:53:58] team to have won a championship.

[00:54:01] 1978, no team

[00:54:02] has had

[00:54:04] I think we were

[00:54:06] 43

[00:54:07] and 39 maybe

[00:54:10] that regular season but

[00:54:12] so we were like fourth place

[00:54:14] in our division but

[00:54:16] we got healthy at the right time

[00:54:18] West and Elvin were

[00:54:20] hungriest could be, they wanted to win a championship

[00:54:23] they had been swept

[00:54:24] the two previous times to the Milwaukee

[00:54:26] Bucks with Karim Abdul-Jabbar

[00:54:28] Luol Sandor at the time

[00:54:30] and then Rick Berry

[00:54:32] and the Golden State Warriors

[00:54:33] and we just, we beat

[00:54:36] they had a many series back then

[00:54:38] best out of three, it wasn't a best

[00:54:40] out of seven and

[00:54:42] we beat the Lana Hawks with Yubi Brown

[00:54:44] he had a hell of a team

[00:54:46] Tree Rollins and Eddie

[00:54:48] Eddie, no not Eddie Jordan

[00:54:50] Eddie Johnson, fast Eddie

[00:54:54] and

[00:54:54] Spud Webb?

[00:54:56] No, Spud went on that team

[00:54:58] Dominic Millen was on that team

[00:55:00] anyway they were really good

[00:55:02] their star player was John Drew

[00:55:04] and we beat them

[00:55:06] and then

[00:55:07] we played San Antonio Spurs

[00:55:10] with Iceman

[00:55:11] Special K

[00:55:13] Larry Keenan, they were terrific

[00:55:16] we beat them

[00:55:18] they had the home court advantage

[00:55:20] then we beat Philadelphia

[00:55:22] and that was the

[00:55:23] we OU won after

[00:55:26] Philadelphia was

[00:55:27] 2-0 against the Portland Trail Blazers

[00:55:30] a year before and lost

[00:55:31] four in a row

[00:55:32] so their mantra that season is we OU won

[00:55:35] fans, we're going to win a championship

[00:55:37] and they were built for a championship

[00:55:39] with Dr. J, Doug Collins

[00:55:41] they had three or four all

[00:55:43] stars in the starting lineup

[00:55:45] Henry Bebe

[00:55:47] Lloyd B. Free

[00:55:50] Darryl Dawkins

[00:55:51] they were really good

[00:55:52] but we beat them in six

[00:55:55] and now

[00:55:56] here we go to the World Championship

[00:55:58] we don't have a home court advantage

[00:56:00] against Seattle either

[00:56:02] we didn't have a home court advantage

[00:56:04] in any of those games because we had

[00:56:06] such a miserable regular season record

[00:56:08] and we went to the Max

[00:56:11] in every series

[00:56:12] but that Philadelphia series that we had

[00:56:14] in the win and six

[00:56:15] and we go to seven game

[00:56:18] and there was only one team

[00:56:20] at the time that had ever won a game seven

[00:56:22] on the road

[00:56:24] and that was the Lakers

[00:56:26] at home got beat by the

[00:56:28] Celtics was that 69

[00:56:30] 69?

[00:56:32] No, you would remember that

[00:56:34] I don't recall

[00:56:35] Only one team had ever done that

[00:56:37] and here we are game seven

[00:56:39] going to Seattle

[00:56:40] at the Seattle Coliseum

[00:56:43] a huge underdog

[00:56:45] and there it was

[00:56:47] the leadership though

[00:56:48] that's remember Wes on sale

[00:56:50] on our day off before the game

[00:56:52] he said is there anything you wouldn't do

[00:56:56] to win this game seven

[00:56:58] when a championship

[00:56:59] and he said any of you

[00:57:01] there is nothing in this life

[00:57:04] he said I would eat my right arm

[00:57:07] off right now

[00:57:09] to win a championship

[00:57:10] and I'm like whoa he wants it bad

[00:57:13] and he ended up becoming

[00:57:15] MVP of the series

[00:57:17] Wes

[00:57:19] people don't really know

[00:57:21] what a great player that guy was

[00:57:23] there's only two players in the

[00:57:25] history of the game that was

[00:57:26] Rookie of the Year and most

[00:57:29] valuable player of the year

[00:57:31] and that was Wilt and Wes

[00:57:33] Wes was

[00:57:34] he was like maybe Charles

[00:57:37] Barkley when he came into the league

[00:57:39] athletic could run

[00:57:41] but his knees got all banged up

[00:57:43] and he became more of

[00:57:45] stationary center

[00:57:47] just using power moves

[00:57:49] but he had such great hands

[00:57:50] he could do something

[00:57:53] it's not humanly

[00:57:55] possible

[00:57:56] I don't shag can't do this

[00:57:59] there's nobody and if they can call me up

[00:58:01] I want to see it

[00:58:03] done

[00:58:03] Wes on Sunday Steve you may have heard this

[00:58:07] he can take the ball

[00:58:09] standing under the basket

[00:58:11] okay

[00:58:12] here's the ram the basket

[00:58:15] he throws the ball up

[00:58:16] and bounces it off the back board

[00:58:19] jumps turns in

[00:58:21] midair

[00:58:21] and then uncoils

[00:58:24] and over the head pass

[00:58:25] to the other back board

[00:58:27] it's 94 feet

[00:58:30] and it's like a missile

[00:58:33] I've tried to do that

[00:58:34] I can't even get to half court

[00:58:36] it's unbelievable I don't know

[00:58:38] if I could throw a baseball pass

[00:58:40] but Wes had that kind of strength

[00:58:42] and he used it with the outlet pass

[00:58:45] if he can go

[00:58:46] back board to back board

[00:58:48] it was amazing

[00:58:49] how did Wes help you out with John Long

[00:58:52] John Long and I never

[00:58:54] saw eye to eye he played for the Detroit

[00:58:56] Pistons shooting guard

[00:58:57] I was shooting guard for the bullets

[00:58:59] there were just sometimes

[00:59:01] in the course of a season

[00:59:03] there's some bad blood

[00:59:05] and it happened

[00:59:06] and we would get into a fight

[00:59:09] I wasn't like throwing the gloves down

[00:59:11] in fist fighting but it was elbows

[00:59:13] and sucker punches

[00:59:15] and clawing and scratching

[00:59:17] and I remember going out

[00:59:19] on the floor and

[00:59:20] here it is Detroit Pistons

[00:59:23] John Long here we go again

[00:59:24] I go to jump ball he says

[00:59:26] so Griebe are we gonna get it on again tonight or not

[00:59:29] and I said we just might

[00:59:30] sure enough there's John

[00:59:33] grabbing my jersey I get a technical

[00:59:35] foul he gets a technical

[00:59:37] foul we're going at it

[00:59:39] and then finally what's on so it's a Griebe

[00:59:41] what is going on

[00:59:43] with you and John Long I said he's back up

[00:59:45] to being an asshole

[00:59:46] he said I'll tell you what

[00:59:49] guys let's come back with

[00:59:51] it's called a get play

[00:59:53] and the get play is

[00:59:55] you just run your man into

[00:59:56] what's on sale

[00:59:58] and let him get the screen

[01:00:01] so I'm a guard

[01:00:03] and I enter the ball to the forward

[01:00:05] and Wes said come full speed

[01:00:07] at me just go shoulder to

[01:00:09] shoulder I'm alright big fella

[01:00:11] so I enter the ball

[01:00:13] John Long scarred me real tight

[01:00:15] and I just run B line

[01:00:16] to the basket like I'm gonna get a

[01:00:18] a give and go

[01:00:21] and there's Wes Sunsell

[01:00:22] he steps right into his path

[01:00:24] and hits John Long

[01:00:26] lifted John off the floor

[01:00:28] John drops to the floor

[01:00:30] and I'm like oh my god

[01:00:32] he killed him he killed John Long

[01:00:34] of course Wes gets

[01:00:36] a foul called

[01:00:38] there's a dead ball

[01:00:40] we come into our huddle

[01:00:42] I don't know if John's gonna play anymore

[01:00:43] sure enough he's a dude's pretty tough

[01:00:46] he stood up

[01:00:48] he tells the trainer yeah

[01:00:49] I can still go so we go back

[01:00:52] out on the floor and I come up

[01:00:54] to next to John I didn't say anything to him

[01:00:56] and he looked at me and said so you got

[01:00:58] Wes Sunsell doing your dirty

[01:01:00] work for you now huh

[01:01:01] I said yes I do

[01:01:03] never had another problem with John Long

[01:01:06] and Wes was that kind of

[01:01:08] teammate he could sense what's going on

[01:01:10] he always had your back

[01:01:12] even if you were struggling

[01:01:14] I'd hear somebody keep

[01:01:16] tweeting keep shooting it

[01:01:17] it was Wes he was just

[01:01:20] a great teammate

[01:01:22] love that

[01:01:23] let me tell you

[01:01:25] Jose you could pitch in on this

[01:01:26] but like we'll throw a few names out

[01:01:29] Don Nelson quick sentence or two

[01:01:33] Nellie ugliest free throw

[01:01:35] that's ever

[01:01:37] shot in the NBA

[01:01:39] okay little period

[01:01:41] great coach though

[01:01:43] why he was a players coach

[01:01:45] he played 16 years I think

[01:01:47] in the NBA and

[01:01:49] he just knew he had

[01:01:51] a sense of his players his

[01:01:53] team he was innovative

[01:01:55] he would take chances

[01:01:57] he was before

[01:01:59] his time double downs on

[01:02:01] defense help defense in

[01:02:03] version he called it open

[01:02:05] forwards become guards

[01:02:07] I was playing in Utah

[01:02:08] and remember they had Mark Eaton the seventh footer

[01:02:11] and we had on our

[01:02:13] team tiny archer ball at

[01:02:15] the end of his career and he said tiny

[01:02:17] you're going to jump ball

[01:02:18] he's what are you talking about coach

[01:02:20] yeah you're going to jump

[01:02:22] Mark Eaton he just

[01:02:24] did it just because

[01:02:26] he thought it would be fun

[01:02:28] and here's the biggest guy

[01:02:30] in the NBA

[01:02:32] and the shortest guy and he jumped

[01:02:34] center Nellie was

[01:02:36] just having a good time

[01:02:38] he was a great coach Jean

[01:02:40] Schu Sanlot

[01:02:42] Jean Schu could call plays

[01:02:44] drawl up plays that we

[01:02:46] never worked on

[01:02:47] like when you're

[01:02:49] basketball you say hey you go over

[01:02:52] here you go he would

[01:02:54] drawl up a play

[01:02:57] based on what

[01:02:58] he thought there was an advantage

[01:03:00] we had on the other team never

[01:03:02] worked on it in practice never

[01:03:04] worked on it he would just drawl up

[01:03:06] a play we're like

[01:03:07] you guys got it and we're like now

[01:03:10] are you sure you want to do this Jean

[01:03:12] let's do it I think it's

[01:03:14] going to work and it would

[01:03:16] work and he would jump up and

[01:03:18] down he was so happy

[01:03:20] and it kept the game fun

[01:03:22] I love that about Jean

[01:03:24] Larry Bird

[01:03:26] one bad ass dude

[01:03:28] man how many words do I

[01:03:30] get to say whatever you want

[01:03:32] it's your share

[01:03:34] Larry came into the league

[01:03:36] towards the end of my career

[01:03:38] and I watched him play

[01:03:40] on TV

[01:03:41] and I kept thinking

[01:03:43] this dude

[01:03:44] can't jump

[01:03:47] he looks like a tuna

[01:03:48] he can't be very good

[01:03:51] he just played it in the end of

[01:03:52] state come on what kind of schedule

[01:03:54] did they have

[01:03:55] okay they made it to the championship

[01:03:58] he can't be that good

[01:03:59] and then we played him an exhibition

[01:04:02] game he's a rookie

[01:04:05] and he made the game

[01:04:06] look so easy

[01:04:08] and I had to guard him

[01:04:10] we were trying different people

[01:04:11] Paul Presse was one of the best

[01:04:13] defensive players in the NBA

[01:04:16] and we had him on our team

[01:04:18] in Milwaukee

[01:04:20] and Nelly Don Nelson

[01:04:22] said I want you

[01:04:24] to body up on him I want you to deny

[01:04:26] him the ball

[01:04:28] and he would

[01:04:29] just toy with

[01:04:32] Presse and I

[01:04:34] remember coming off the floor

[01:04:35] I said press he's pretty good

[01:04:38] he said he's freaking unbelievable

[01:04:41] he's the dude

[01:04:42] 6'10 can do

[01:04:44] anything he wants if he wants

[01:04:46] a pass rebound shoot

[01:04:47] he could do it he's one of the best

[01:04:50] that ever played the game

[01:04:51] Jerry West

[01:04:53] legend man

[01:04:55] I love Jerry West I got to work

[01:04:57] with him when L.A.

[01:04:59] Jerry West was maybe

[01:05:01] the greatest player of his

[01:05:03] era for a few years

[01:05:05] you debate who was the greatest player

[01:05:07] back then was it Russell was it Will

[01:05:09] for a while there was Jerry

[01:05:12] he was probably

[01:05:14] the best general manager

[01:05:16] that the game had

[01:05:18] for a while

[01:05:19] second

[01:05:22] and he was

[01:05:23] probably

[01:05:24] the best scout

[01:05:26] assessor of talent that there ever was

[01:05:29] whatever he did he was great

[01:05:31] at he was the most

[01:05:33] blessed guy one of the more

[01:05:35] complex people too

[01:05:36] he was a good looking great athlete

[01:05:39] unbelievable competitor

[01:05:41] accomplished so much in life

[01:05:44] but sadly

[01:05:45] he was miserable for a while

[01:05:47] a big part of his life and

[01:05:49] if you read his book West by West

[01:05:51] he gets into the depression

[01:05:53] and the things he had

[01:05:55] but he sure was fun

[01:05:57] to be around I loved

[01:05:59] and learned a lot from Jerry West

[01:06:02] Jose got anybody

[01:06:03] want to throw out

[01:06:04] I do I've got one

[01:06:07] and this might need to be the end

[01:06:08] unless you have another one Steve

[01:06:10] I'm thinking about it

[01:06:11] Kevin you called out his name a couple of times

[01:06:15] and he was one of the best

[01:06:17] athletes I walked to me

[01:06:19] watching when I started falling in love

[01:06:21] with the game and that's Iceman

[01:06:23] George Gerbin

[01:06:24] just looked effortless

[01:06:26] yeah

[01:06:27] it just looked like he was doing ballet out there

[01:06:30] so I want to ask you

[01:06:32] about George Gerbin

[01:06:34] this will sum it up I'll tell you

[01:06:36] George Gerbin's story where I'm playing them

[01:06:39] and it was

[01:06:40] George didn't do what I'm going to

[01:06:42] tell you in the playoffs he did it

[01:06:44] in a regular season game he was averaging

[01:06:47] he was leaving the league and scoring at about

[01:06:48] 35 36 a game

[01:06:50] I had to guard him every

[01:06:52] night and it was

[01:06:54] daunting having to chase him

[01:06:56] around I would try to

[01:06:58] discourage him from behind

[01:07:00] because he would lay the ball back

[01:07:02] and I blocked a couple shots

[01:07:04] I would strip the ball when he

[01:07:06] get back there but he's

[01:07:08] doing the finger rolls he's doing

[01:07:10] and everything and so anyway we go to San

[01:07:12] Antonio and Dick

[01:07:14] said look Grievey I want you

[01:07:16] to don't

[01:07:18] focus so much on deep I want you

[01:07:20] to look for your offense too

[01:07:21] you kind of it takes you out

[01:07:23] of your game you know

[01:07:25] Iceman is not going to come off

[01:07:27] screens we're watching film

[01:07:29] sure enough I see spots

[01:07:31] where I can shoot the ball

[01:07:34] so

[01:07:35] we start the game and damn

[01:07:37] Ice goes right to work

[01:07:38] he scores on a finger roll then he hits

[01:07:41] a three pointer then he posts me up

[01:07:44] and

[01:07:46] we're not four minutes

[01:07:47] in the game and he's got 12

[01:07:49] or 14 points and I haven't

[01:07:51] even looked at the basket yet

[01:07:53] I haven't had a chance

[01:07:55] and he sees

[01:07:56] a guy coming off the bench

[01:07:59] he says hey Grievey is he

[01:08:01] coming in for you

[01:08:03] and I'm like hell I don't know Ice

[01:08:05] I don't know what the hell you're

[01:08:07] talking about I think he's coming in

[01:08:08] for you and so I said

[01:08:11] I don't know and then we come back

[01:08:12] down I come back down the floor he

[01:08:14] says hey Grievey go ahead

[01:08:16] and get you one I said

[01:08:18] give me one what go ahead I'm not

[01:08:20] going to guard you just go ahead and shoot it

[01:08:23] I'm like this

[01:08:24] son of a bitch is toying with me

[01:08:26] I caught the ball and I look

[01:08:28] and I see a big grin on his face

[01:08:30] I'm wide open and I knock

[01:08:32] down the jumper

[01:08:34] sure enough the horn

[01:08:36] blows I come in here comes Larry

[01:08:38] Wright for me I sit down on the

[01:08:40] bench and I'm like

[01:08:42] that dirty dog

[01:08:44] he didn't want me to come out

[01:08:46] he was thinking he's going to get

[01:08:47] 100 tonight with me

[01:08:49] gardening now I messed up

[01:08:51] his rhythm by having to sit

[01:08:53] to bench I'm like

[01:08:56] that Iceman is a dirty dog

[01:09:02] that's it you got anything

[01:09:03] go ahead Steve

[01:09:04] no you got anything else

[01:09:06] you know

[01:09:07] best player you ever played against

[01:09:10] you might be surprised

[01:09:11] but it was only for a brief

[01:09:13] moment it was David Thompson

[01:09:15] he was great

[01:09:16] and I did not

[01:09:19] I played with him in college

[01:09:21] all-star game after our

[01:09:23] senior years he and I are the same age

[01:09:25] do you know I never saw him play

[01:09:27] until Hawaii

[01:09:29] the loha classic for the all-americans

[01:09:32] and he comes from

[01:09:33] NC State I've come to Kentucky

[01:09:35] and now we're on the same floor I saw him on TV

[01:09:38] but that's the different

[01:09:39] era that we play I never played

[01:09:41] against him in summer ball

[01:09:42] we didn't have such a thing

[01:09:45] all I did was

[01:09:47] I was on the floor and it was watch David

[01:09:49] I could not believe the shit he was doing

[01:09:51] teammates never did that stuff

[01:09:53] flying through the air the way he did

[01:09:55] and

[01:09:56] we had the same agent

[01:09:58] and David and I became good friends

[01:10:01] and when he was

[01:10:03] at Denver started out in the

[01:10:05] ABA they merged to the NBA

[01:10:07] I would see him

[01:10:08] and for about two or three years

[01:10:11] he was

[01:10:12] you just could he catch

[01:10:14] just jump in the air and shoot his jump shot

[01:10:17] what is a

[01:10:18] mere mortal going to do the only thing he could do

[01:10:20] was deny him the ball

[01:10:22] keep him from catching it

[01:10:24] and the last thing he would do was

[01:10:26] never let him get a breakaway layup

[01:10:28] so I couldn't go

[01:10:30] to the offensive glass I always

[01:10:32] had to know where David is

[01:10:34] so I took away his layups

[01:10:36] and I tried to deny him the ball

[01:10:38] but when he caught it he's going to score

[01:10:41] he was so unbelievable

[01:10:43] that era

[01:10:44] had a problem it was the drugs

[01:10:46] and David got caught up in that

[01:10:48] and sad it did take away

[01:10:50] from his game I was having

[01:10:52] lunch today with a guy from NC

[01:10:54] State and he said David Thompson

[01:10:56] we know how great he was at NC State

[01:10:59] Michael Jordan

[01:11:00] was supposed to go to NC State

[01:11:02] I said really

[01:11:03] I thought all along he was going to say

[01:11:05] no he was ready to go to

[01:11:07] NC State his idol was

[01:11:09] David Thompson

[01:11:11] and then Dean Smith had a brilliant

[01:11:13] recruiting

[01:11:14] he said look David

[01:11:17] you could go to NC State

[01:11:19] but you're always going to be

[01:11:21] judged by David Thompson

[01:11:23] and

[01:11:24] some things you're going to do better in him

[01:11:27] and some things you might not

[01:11:29] but you're going to have

[01:11:31] that shadow of David Thompson

[01:11:33] following you everywhere

[01:11:35] you go if you go but if you come to

[01:11:37] North Carolina

[01:11:39] you'll create your own

[01:11:40] aura and I'm just like

[01:11:42] wow he got him

[01:11:45] he got him David

[01:11:46] was great Michael was a little

[01:11:49] better but

[01:11:50] Michael would have probably gone to NC State

[01:11:53] it's interesting best team

[01:11:55] you ever played against I swear

[01:11:56] it has to be that Portland Trailblazer

[01:11:59] team with Bill Walton

[01:12:00] if I can remember it was

[01:12:02] Bill Walton, Maurice

[01:12:04] Lucas, Johnny

[01:12:07] Davis, David

[01:12:09] Tord seek these are not

[01:12:11] all or faint play yeah

[01:12:12] there wasn't

[01:12:14] gross the rookie

[01:12:16] and they won the championship

[01:12:18] some other stuff on the bench too

[01:12:20] but these were all

[01:12:23] good players with Jack Ramsey

[01:12:25] but Bill Walton was

[01:12:27] so incredible

[01:12:29] he was the best passing big

[01:12:30] man at a var era

[01:12:32] and I remember

[01:12:34] just getting back door and that ball

[01:12:37] being zip over your shoulder

[01:12:38] if you turned your head he was going to find

[01:12:41] that teammate of his

[01:12:42] he was such a great passer

[01:12:45] probably the best passing

[01:12:47] big man maybe the game

[01:12:49] ever saw

[01:12:50] wasn't Bill Walton one

[01:12:53] of the guys who probably could throw that

[01:12:54] 94 foot

[01:12:56] pass like you mentioned

[01:12:58] West with throw

[01:12:59] Bill could probably do it standing

[01:13:02] under the basket but not

[01:13:04] in midair

[01:13:06] his out wet pass was

[01:13:08] catching it in midair

[01:13:10] Kevin Love today would probably

[01:13:13] be the closest that could do it

[01:13:14] and Kevin Love's

[01:13:16] uncle played with

[01:13:18] West Unsell in the Baltimore Bullets

[01:13:20] Stan Love

[01:13:22] and Stan

[01:13:24] yes Stan

[01:13:26] told Kevin

[01:13:27] this is how a big man throws an outlet

[01:13:30] my teammate was Sunsell

[01:13:32] he's the greatest out lead passer

[01:13:33] and he had West talk to Kevin

[01:13:36] his son Kevin Love

[01:13:38] idolized West Unsell

[01:13:39] full circle

[01:13:41] yeah Jose you got anything else

[01:13:44] I'm good we've got more

[01:13:46] questions but I do think we're running a

[01:13:49] lot of time

[01:13:52] this is fun for me to talk

[01:13:54] about the game the way we did

[01:13:56] it was great fun

[01:13:58] love it love it

[01:14:00] and we're grateful that's it

[01:14:02] man watching we hope you learned

[01:14:04] something this discussion with

[01:14:06] NBA champion Kevin Grievi has been

[01:14:08] incredible and we're so grateful

[01:14:10] for your time as usual

[01:14:12] we're grateful you found us please like

[01:14:14] subscribe comment all that stuff means the world

[01:14:16] to us and it helps us and

[01:14:17] make sure to join us next time on 13

[01:14:20] rules NBA random thoughts over time

[01:14:21] podcast Steve Kevin

[01:14:24] thank you very much

[01:14:26] thanks Jose see you Steve