13 Rules: NBA Random Thoughts - Overtime! Oscar Robertson!

[00:00:00] All right, it's time to talk basketball. It is the off-season. We are enjoying some phenomenal Olympic basketball

[00:00:07] The men won the gold the women won the gold today in a really good game. Hope you got a chance to see it

[00:00:14] But we are here today to talk NBA greats

[00:00:20] I'm Jose Salviati editor at thepeachbasket.net

[00:00:23] He's Steve Prasiello longtime educator vice principal high school coach and athletic director

[00:00:29] And this is the 13 rules random NBA thoughts overtime podcast

[00:00:33] This is the show where we are going to discuss

[00:00:35] NBA stars from the 60s 70s and 80s by talking about them with someone who actually watch them play

[00:00:44] Which is cool. And it makes all the difference in the world

[00:00:46] I want to know what made these guys special

[00:00:48] These are players you've heard about players, you know, but you never got to see play just like me in most cases

[00:00:53] Which player today most resembles that player?

[00:00:57] What is Steve's greatest memory about that player?

[00:01:01] Today we've discussed some of the greats in the NBA will chamberlain sam jones rig berry pistol pete marivich

[00:01:07] Jerry west john havla check and bill russell

[00:01:10] We'll see if we can't link all of those shows if you missed one you can you can catch up

[00:01:15] Today though, we're going to discuss someone who held what many believe to be an unbreakable achievement

[00:01:21] In the NBA averaging a triple double for an entire season

[00:01:25] Nobody came close to doing that after this guy did it

[00:01:27] Until someone did it

[00:01:29] And I think that's what makes at least to me. That's what makes this guy's achievement interesting to talk about it

[00:01:37] This player was an NBA champion in 71 mvp

[00:01:41] It's a 412 time all-star three time all-star

[00:01:45] 9-time all-star

[00:01:46] Pardon me all NBA first team two time

[00:01:49] second team

[00:01:50] NBA rookie of the year in a class that had jerry west

[00:01:54] It tells you something

[00:01:55] Six time mba assist leader

[00:01:58] Today we're discussing the big Oscar robertson. What made him special?

[00:02:03] What player most resembles his talent playing what is his greatest memory?

[00:02:08] And it's neat because today javis you and I've talked about this

[00:02:11] We talked about a lot of lakers. We talked about a lot of Celtics and it's understandable these guys these franchises own the NBA in terms of

[00:02:18] Winds but there were other phenomenal players and oscar

[00:02:22] It definitely falls into that category. Let's start with

[00:02:25] What made him special what made oscar special?

[00:02:29] He did everything

[00:02:30] He could do everything he can shoot he can pass he can play defense

[00:02:35] He just did it all on the court

[00:02:37] He was six five which was a big guard back then and he was physical and he had a bigger ball

[00:02:43] It wasn't easy to even defend him. He had a little move where he'd back you down by the foul

[00:02:48] I had to just shoot a little turnaround

[00:02:50] The story on that when we were I guess in high school

[00:02:53] We went over to see was near the end of the year the nicks were playing

[00:02:57] Cincinnati in the garden

[00:02:59] And before the game they come out and shoot and there's oscar and before the three of course

[00:03:05] He's shooting somebody's feeding in the ball

[00:03:09] On a foot behind the foul on he must have banged in not banged in made about 15 10 or 15 straight

[00:03:15] Just like a joke and everything was right down the net not even a rim

[00:03:19] It was just and you're sitting there and my friend turned to me and said

[00:03:22] This is great. This guy is amazing because nobody shot. We never saw anybody shoot like that at that time

[00:03:29] So that gives you a little taste to him now

[00:03:31] My early recollections were only on tv

[00:03:35] And we didn't get a lot of games then so it was more difficult to see him

[00:03:39] I saw him with the bucks in the playoffs against boston and as well as winning the playoffs against baltimore

[00:03:45] I want to go back to something note it. That's very interesting

[00:03:49] He played on a team of chrispizatics high school

[00:03:52] They lost in the finals indiana state finals because he grew up in indianapolis

[00:03:57] They lost to malan high school

[00:04:01] In 1954 now

[00:04:04] That malan high school that was the beginnings of how they made the movie hoosiers

[00:04:10] That was that losing that game was the beginning of it

[00:04:15] Now his last two years

[00:04:18] I think they were

[00:04:20] 30 something in one and then they undefeated they went 45 straight games. They won two straight

[00:04:26] indiana state championships

[00:04:28] They won like I said 45 straight games first black all black school chrispizatics high school for all black

[00:04:37] To win the whole thing

[00:04:39] Um in indiana he was amazing

[00:04:43] He went to a segregated school

[00:04:45] Then he went to the university of cincinatti at cincinatti. They were in the final four two at the final four four years never won it

[00:04:52] But they were there and by the way if you heard oscar talk, there's a little

[00:04:59] Tinge of sarcasm and anger in him and it goes back to being when he went to cincinatti

[00:05:06] he

[00:05:07] Went in the south they played schools in the south and they were segregated

[00:05:10] He had to stay in different dorms not the hotel rooms and that always built a crutch or an anger in him

[00:05:16] Throughout his his career and his life

[00:05:20] So that was it and then one other thing in 1960

[00:05:24] played on the olympic team

[00:05:26] He and jerry west were the

[00:05:28] Captains they had a guy by the name of jerry lucas on the team wall bellamy. He's a hall of famers

[00:05:33] Another guy terry dishinger was a real good shooter played on that same team

[00:05:38] So they were loaded with with players

[00:05:41] And they won the olympics at 60 that's coming off bill russell's 56 olympics

[00:05:46] so they and that was when only college players could play

[00:05:52] Then

[00:05:53] Please to you. What was the first time?

[00:05:56] pros could play in the olympics

[00:05:58] I'm waiting for your answer

[00:06:01] Oh, you know what you cut out a little I didn't hear your question

[00:06:05] When was the first time?

[00:06:08] professional basketball players could play in the olympics

[00:06:13] I know

[00:06:14] I'm going off memory here because I could look it up. I'm not going to but I know that we were challenged

[00:06:19] We were challenged one time and people took offense to that and so that's when they said

[00:06:24] The pros are going to come so that was magic

[00:06:27] jordan bird

[00:06:29] 1992

[00:06:31] That's right. That's right. I think in 88th. We didn't do up

[00:06:35] But anyway back then all college players play and he was on this team and then he went to the mba

[00:06:40] Played with cincinati and the royals were like the bridesmaids

[00:06:44] They always did well. I think he was the mvp in 64

[00:06:47] But they always lost to boston

[00:06:50] Always and they had a good team. They had him and jerry lucas

[00:06:53] adria smith jack twyman twyman's a hall of famer lucas a hall of famer. They had some good players

[00:06:59] Harlan bob corin and there's a boozer another boozer played

[00:07:03] They had some good teams, but they weren't quite good enough to beat boston never beat boston

[00:07:07] And then in 70 69 seven bob kuzi became the coach

[00:07:14] Now bob kuzi was retired for quite a while

[00:07:17] bob kuzi decided to come out of retirement

[00:07:21] And he played a little bit some say it was because of the crowds

[00:07:25] So now you had a back court at times. I think they did it seven times kuzi and oscar robertson

[00:07:32] Now one of my memories would be when the nicks won the title in 70

[00:07:37] They beat that team from out west when they won that title

[00:07:41] You're not gonna name them

[00:07:42] No, I can't remember there's it's obscure

[00:07:46] But in 70 when they when the nicks wanted the nicks went on a I don't know 20 game winning streak or somewhere around that

[00:07:54] But at one point they were going to set the record. They're playing cincinati

[00:07:58] Cincinati's winning by let's say seven to ten points with about a minute left kuzi puts himself in the game

[00:08:05] Cincinati blows the game kuzi made a couple turnovers where I lived and the nicks continued their winning streak

[00:08:11] And that was one of the early memories I have of him then he went to the bucks

[00:08:16] First year they won a title with beating

[00:08:19] I believe they beat the bullets and forced straight now the bullets

[00:08:22] They were in the west and the bullets were in the east

[00:08:25] So they were able to now they're both eastern conference teams

[00:08:27] But they won four straight to win the finals and then oscar stayed around for three more years

[00:08:35] And they never won it. They lost to the boston seltics in 74 in seven great games

[00:08:41] But they never did win it again oscar's number is retired by number 14 in cincinati number one with milwaukee

[00:08:49] So he was retired twice. He went into the first

[00:08:53] ncAA

[00:08:54] college basketball hall of fame

[00:08:57] him

[00:08:57] Pretty good people with them rustle wooden

[00:09:01] And naysmith

[00:09:02] Opening class, but again, it tells you how great he was in college

[00:09:08] First five years at the mba by the way first five years total stats average to triple double

[00:09:13] It's an interesting thing to think about so there there's so many things that he was just one of the greatest ever that ever played the game

[00:09:20] obviously in our day

[00:09:23] robertson and west were considered

[00:09:26] The two best guards they ever played a game better than kuzi

[00:09:29] And then you had this guy coming along wall frazier who people thought

[00:09:34] Was getting into that class

[00:09:37] Yeah

[00:09:38] I want to focus on

[00:09:42] You started by saying he could do everything

[00:09:45] And that's a common thread right all the greats that we talk about

[00:09:50] We start there, right?

[00:09:52] Because oscar jerry west to me. I never knew him as a great defender

[00:09:55] But you started jerry west the same thing he could do it all oscar could do it all

[00:09:59] I didn't think of oscar as a great defender

[00:10:01] But the triple doubles

[00:10:03] for me as a fan

[00:10:04] and

[00:10:05] That was always the unbreakable incredible achievement. We've never seen anybody do that before so

[00:10:11] When oscar came into the league

[00:10:13] Did he change the game? You said he was six five. I didn't realize he was that big

[00:10:18] Was was that a monumental shift in the way the game was played or not?

[00:10:22] No, I don't think I think honestly and I was a little young for that

[00:10:26] But I think russell was the guy who really changed the game

[00:10:29] With his ability to block shots and bring defense into the conversation

[00:10:34] Yeah, so I don't look at it as that way because

[00:10:39] Yeah, they didn't

[00:10:41] And they were always the bridesmaids so they weren't looked upon in that

[00:10:47] That way, but he was just considered a great player and the amazing thing. I can't emphasize this

[00:10:54] In today's game

[00:10:56] If you had our team with oscar jerry lucas jack twyman

[00:11:02] They'd be competing for a title. That's a big three and then

[00:11:07] They couldn't get past boston

[00:11:09] in those are the so people

[00:11:12] Back then in basketball again, and I can emphasize this in the 1950s and 60s when russell was there

[00:11:19] Boston the garden Boston garden only drew about eight or nine thousand a game

[00:11:25] And this is an arena that's twice as big

[00:11:28] So it tells you where basketball was at the time

[00:11:33] So I don't think people spent a lot of time discussing basketball the way we do now

[00:11:37] And I don't think he was nearly as popular as sport as it is now and again

[00:11:43] Football was moving along as becoming the best sport, but baseball was the king

[00:11:48] In fact, oscar was supposedly a pretty good baseball player, but he liked basketball better

[00:11:54] A lot and young athletes everybody played baseball then more so than anything else

[00:12:00] So basketball wasn't looked upon

[00:12:04] In in the same way or with the same love that other sports were

[00:12:09] I'm also focused on you start off by saying his team was always the bridesmaids

[00:12:13] And I think about kind of some modern teams, right?

[00:12:16] The new york nicks had some great teams couldn't get past the bulls

[00:12:20] Right the utah jazz had some great teams couldn't get past the bulls couldn't get past the lakers

[00:12:26] There were some really good teams that if it wasn't for some special teams in boston and la most more often than not

[00:12:34] They would be more revered. Do you think sincennadine falls into that category?

[00:12:39] I I think they do and if you were analytical, and you know a little bit about that time however

[00:12:46] Nobody's analytical in the 60s or 50s of basketball. Yeah

[00:12:51] Delved that deep into it. It really was a time when they played the season

[00:12:56] But you always figured to be boston and la and maybe and it always was

[00:13:01] Yeah, so I don't think but again and and I don't know well enough, but my memory tells me

[00:13:07] That usually wilt

[00:13:11] Boston or the lakers were on the sunday game of the week against somebody

[00:13:16] Yeah, so that tells me something about where the game stood and how the

[00:13:21] The mba tried to sell their game back then

[00:13:24] Don't forget we're in a time when those games didn't come on until

[00:13:28] Delayed the finals were delayed right so you know even till burden johnson came along

[00:13:33] We didn't even think about this stuff and only the diehard true

[00:13:37] Trying true basketball fan

[00:13:40] Would would really talk about it

[00:13:43] Yeah boggles the mind talking about the modern game

[00:13:47] This is absolutely my favorite part of of this segment and while I ask it

[00:13:52] We're gonna go ahead and put up some highlights of the big O

[00:13:56] Who today?

[00:13:58] The player that comes closest

[00:14:01] To the the type of game big O had

[00:14:05] Offensively, I would say westbrook, but he the big O was a much better shooter

[00:14:11] Then westbrook is an hour best an opportunity

[00:14:14] But with the stats and all I would say westbrook, but the thing about it again

[00:14:19] How many mba players

[00:14:22] today

[00:14:24] Don't have great players. They all have flood games

[00:14:29] Think about some of the great players not many of them played both ends of the court

[00:14:32] And if they didn't rebound well, they didn't pass well. There was always something missing

[00:14:37] There wasn't anything missing with these people. So that that's a little bit different

[00:14:42] They went out and they guarded they did all the things you're supposed to and nobody was worried and again check out

[00:14:48] I didn't check out the minutes for oscar, but if you check out the minutes for these guys

[00:14:52] Now when it again we'll use thibbid tibbs with the nicks

[00:14:56] If somebody's playing over 36 minutes a game, he's getting criticized back there. You just play

[00:15:02] I nobody worried about it. So it was totally different way

[00:15:07] I happened to have that up. So a really good timing in his 20s

[00:15:12] He averaged 40 minutes 41 minutes 39 38 38 36 and 34

[00:15:19] Now in his 30s, he dipped a little 37 34 32 28 and 26

[00:15:25] But yeah, still this guy if the clock was running he was on the court

[00:15:30] At the end when he played with the bucks

[00:15:33] He was only he was getting heavy

[00:15:36] And he wasn't the star he was

[00:15:39] But they needed him in fact that's when milwaukey found

[00:15:44] And he became like a little bit of a

[00:15:47] Mickey davis I believe it was who as a point guard played for oscar

[00:15:51] Oscar wasn't getting the minutes he was getting before and they liked him and by the way on that buck team that I believe

[00:15:58] Won the title

[00:16:00] larry costello was the coach

[00:16:02] Famous person was the assistant coach

[00:16:06] ubi brawling

[00:16:07] Yeah, ubi brown

[00:16:10] Yeah, he's in his 90s

[00:16:13] But ubi brown won a title with the katucky kernels and then became an assistant in the mba. I believe with the bucks with larry costello

[00:16:21] So

[00:16:23] I believe

[00:16:25] Hope i'm right

[00:16:26] We'll back check you we'll back check you. All right, let's end here

[00:16:31] What I find most interesting about oscar is again that triple double thing growing up for me personally

[00:16:36] That's how I knew him. That's how I always heard about him

[00:16:38] And you know, we never thought anybody would average triple double until russell westbrook did who I think is the player

[00:16:44] You certainly draw that comparison, but I love the fact that you called out

[00:16:48] He's oscar was a better shooter

[00:16:50] But what's unique to me interesting? Maybe is a better word about oscar every player we've talked about to date

[00:16:55] Had a hallmark moment, right?

[00:16:59] Jerry west shot wilts finger roll bill russell dominating on win in 1969

[00:17:04] But I can't think of a

[00:17:07] Highlight we just saw some highlights for oscar, but there was no particular play no game winner. No

[00:17:12] He was it didn't win

[00:17:17] They didn't have that the only time they won is with the box

[00:17:22] And don't forget he had this guy that wasn't a bad player by the name of jabar playing with him

[00:17:26] Yeah, so lua's finger at the time, wouldn't it? Yes. I don't know if he switched by them

[00:17:31] But yeah, and then they also had bob dandridge who became a hall of famer

[00:17:35] I believe also so they were pretty good

[00:17:37] And he was the finishing touches because he was a leader. Don't forget jabar was young

[00:17:42] And dangers was young so they needed that that leader

[00:17:48] To to win games. Yeah, and at the time and think about this

[00:17:53] He was traded for

[00:17:55] Flynn robinson and trolly pole

[00:17:58] now

[00:17:59] No draft picks nothing else now think about

[00:18:03] Today in the mba if you have a guard that's a little bit past his prime

[00:18:08] But a great player what a team might get for as compared to that

[00:18:14] So the game was completely different

[00:18:17] Yeah, by the way one more piece to that

[00:18:20] oscar was a territorial draft pick

[00:18:24] Back then the mba if you grew up in an area

[00:18:28] The area you could take that guy in the first round

[00:18:32] Tommy hightson went the holy cross. He ended up a Celtic

[00:18:37] So it was an advantage

[00:18:39] The old rumors were red hour back tried to talk will

[00:18:43] Into going to school up in the boston area

[00:18:46] So that he could get will so

[00:18:49] That tells you a little bit about it. That's interesting

[00:18:53] That is interesting. I've always heard the term territorial

[00:18:56] I never really knew what it was. I think that kind of had phased out by some I became interested in the game

[00:19:01] So very interesting

[00:19:03] That's it. I'm sure we can talk a lot more about about oscar fascinating career

[00:19:07] Did something that only a couple of people have done which in and of itself is pretty amazing

[00:19:13] Um phenomenal player. I hope you enjoyed learning a little bit more about oscar robertson

[00:19:17] Let us know if you want to discuss and play or that we haven't talked about yet

[00:19:21] We've got a couple of weeks before the season starts, so we'll find more players to talk about

[00:19:27] We'd love to hear your thoughts as always. We're grateful you found us

[00:19:30] Please subscribe that stuff matters and it goes a long way

[00:19:34] Make sure to join us next week when we discuss another mba great on 13 rules over time. Thanks, Steve

[00:19:41] Thanks