13 Rules: NBA Random Thoughts - Overtime! Scott Foster Interview

[00:00:00] Alright, it's time to talk basketball. I'm Jose Salviati, editor at ThePeachBasket.net.

[00:00:05] I'm Steve Priscielo, longtime educator, vice principal, high school coach and athletic director.

[00:00:10] This is the 13 Rules Random NBA Thoughts Overtime podcast.

[00:00:14] During the NBA offseason, Steve and I have been discussing NBA stars from the 60s, 70s, and 80s by talking about them with someone who watched them play.

[00:00:22] Today we've discussed Will Chamberlain, Sam Jones, Rick Berry, Pistol Pete Meribitch, Jerry West, John Havlich, and, man, it's a long list,

[00:00:29] Oscar Robertson, Earl Monroe and Bill Russell. Today though we have a special show. Instead of discussing NBA

[00:00:35] greats from the past, we're discussing the state of the current NBA with one of its greatest referees,

[00:00:41] Scott Foster. Scott Foster started officiating games in the 1994-95 season, so he has been at this for 30 years.

[00:00:49] He's called games with some of the greatest players in the game, including Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan,

[00:00:54] all the way through to today's greats, Jason Tatum and tons more. Can't list them.

[00:00:59] According to the NBRA, the National Basketball Referee Association site, he has officiated 1,675 regular

[00:01:07] season games and 241 playoff games, including games seven of the 2010 NBA Finals between the

[00:01:13] Lakers and the Boston Celtics as well as some other ones where Boston came out on top,

[00:01:18] which we have to call out for fair. Quite a few.

[00:01:20] With that, I thought you and Steve and I are thrilled to welcome the 13 rules.

[00:01:24] Scott Foster, Scott, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:27] Thanks for the exciting beer. Good to see you guys.

[00:01:30] Pre-sure thing. Fire away.

[00:01:31] Let's go. Let's talk about when we're a site dedicated to basketball, we're a site made up

[00:01:37] of fans. You know, we're coming at this from a fan's perspective. Got a few things to ask you,

[00:01:41] but we want to start with your pat, right? To become an NBA referee. How do you do it?

[00:01:45] How do people do it if this is something they want to do? And along the same lines,

[00:01:50] what do you remember about the first time you had that whistle and took an NBA court for a game?

[00:01:57] Oh, there's a lot more before I got to the NBA court. I got lucky. I was coaching my little

[00:02:01] brothers in basketball and a guy said to me after their game, hey, if you stay, we'll give

[00:02:07] you five bucks to referee the next game. And I was like, that sounds good. So I rested,

[00:02:10] stayed and referee. And then about a month later, I took my brother's team to a tournament

[00:02:15] and the guys said, part of this deal is you have to stay and referee a game. We'll give you 10 bucks

[00:02:19] towards your entry fee. And so I stayed and I remember a guy going baseline and I had no idea

[00:02:24] what I was doing, but I saw a foul and I blew my whistle and I actually put my fist up and I went

[00:02:28] to the table and I reported it and I gave me this great satisfaction. So I said, I think

[00:02:32] I like this referee thing. So I stopped coaching. I picked up coaching my daughter's AU team

[00:02:36] some years later, but I stopped coaching and I started ref frames from Montgomery County Rec

[00:02:41] Department for $3.90. That was minimum wage in 19 probably 86. And I was taking courses at Montgomery

[00:02:47] Junior College for one year before I went to Maryland. And my accounting teacher, Bill Johnston,

[00:02:52] walked by my desk after one of my tests and I happened to have the Federation rulebook out.

[00:02:56] And he looked at me and said, what are you doing? And I thought he was admonishing me for

[00:02:59] not doing my accounting when I was done the test. So I'm sorry. I'm ready to

[00:03:03] high school rulebook. I'm referee and bitty bites down at the rec center.

[00:03:06] $3.90. And he says, no, that's a stupid idea. You need to go over here. Let me make a phone call.

[00:03:11] So it turns out he was a high school referee. He made a phone call, got me into the class,

[00:03:15] which was in his third week of six. And I took the class for three more weeks. I just passed

[00:03:19] the test by the skin on my teeth and I became a IBO certified referee in 1986. And so back

[00:03:26] then no cell phones, none of that silliness. And so I'd come home from college and my

[00:03:31] grandmother would have a list of games for me to go referee, not going to DC or Rockville or

[00:03:35] Montgomery County. I'd work like three o'clock at the middle school and five o'clock to JV. And

[00:03:39] then I'd go to the men's rec league at six and then at nine o'clock I'd go to the same

[00:03:43] no to drugs league. So this went on all through my college days. And the nice thing about the

[00:03:47] one of the University of Maryland was as I got started, I was close to places like the

[00:03:52] Massa and Gonzaga and because I could go in the back door from University of

[00:03:56] Washington DC. So I was working Dunbar, Cardozen, some really high level basketball in the DC

[00:04:02] area. That's helped me get going and I had some nice mentors along the way who helped me out.

[00:04:07] And a friend of mine said, Hey, you got to go to this referee school. So I went to the ACC

[00:04:10] referee school run by Fred Bearcat, did okay my first year, came back the second year and was

[00:04:16] ranked one of the top three guys in that camp. And there was a couple NBA referees who had

[00:04:21] just been added to the roster of the NBA when they went from two man to three man.

[00:04:24] And they gave my name to the NBA. And the next summer the NBA came to look at me

[00:04:29] at James Madison and they took me to the LA per summer. And so when I went to the LA

[00:04:34] per summer league, I really in my mind wanted to be an ACC referee and I thought this would

[00:04:39] help me get there. I had no thoughts of being an NBA referee, even though George

[00:04:44] Talber said, I think you're a naturally being an NBA referee. I was like, that's insane.

[00:04:47] And so I was out on the court hoping to do Duke, North Carolina and ran down the court. My

[00:04:52] first game and they were playing it was Boston versus Seattle. And I don't remember which one

[00:04:58] of you is the Boston came, but just saying a Boston Wall State game. And Rick Fox was a rookie.

[00:05:03] Gary Payton, I believe was a rookie Sean Kemp was in his second year. And so Gary Payton

[00:05:09] grind down the left when he throws an alley past it's way too hot, way too hot. And I just

[00:05:14] quit on the plane. I'm like, what's he doing? And all of a sudden Sean Kemp comes out of

[00:05:17] nowhere. And I'm looking through the rim and he unleashes the most ferocious dunk I've seen in my

[00:05:24] 31 years or actually, so that would be 31 plus four. So 35 years of pro basketball. Best dunk I saw

[00:05:31] in 35 years. And I think about that. And I just my mouth went, Oh my God, like this is unbelievable.

[00:05:38] And I remember thinking screw the ACC. I want to be an NBA referee. And so from that moment

[00:05:44] on, it was all very targeted. It's what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. And I remember

[00:05:49] during that game that Boston coach took over his name. He there was center's name was Igor. He was

[00:05:53] from somewhere in Europe and I called a foul on him. It was probably terrible. And he says,

[00:05:57] don't worry Igor, that guy's never going to make the NBA. And I've been waiting now 31 years

[00:06:02] to see that guy. So I'm telling you, I'm sure he knows that I made it. But but I would

[00:06:06] love to see him go, huh, didn't they got Megan on? Anyway, that was how the deal went

[00:06:10] for me from beginning to end to the NBA. I did two years in the CBA, which was exponential learning,

[00:06:16] two man officiating to I should say two young men officiating, because most of the 20 year olds,

[00:06:21] we were out there learning on the job, teaching one another surviving. And that league was just

[00:06:26] a really cool, you could do a whole podcast on the CBA, just a really cool experience for I

[00:06:31] think players, mascots, cheerleaders, you name it, we're all trying to get the NBA,

[00:06:35] we're all cheering for one another coaches flip Saunders was there when I was there and

[00:06:39] Eric Mulsman and people like that. So we had two years in the CBA, which I could tell stories on

[00:06:43] that all night. Yeah. Have you had a chance to enact with the Rayman, Sean Camp and tell him his

[00:06:49] part in your origin story? Because that's pretty cool. I've seen Gary a bunch of times. I've seen

[00:06:54] Gary Payton tons of times I've told him that story. In fact, since last year at Levy

[00:06:57] played 17 years in the NBA, he bought me a drink. It was after the season was over,

[00:07:02] I saw him at a bar and and I said, maybe I should buy you the drinks and I call

[00:07:05] all his money and fines and technical vows and that sort of thing. And he couldn't have been more

[00:07:09] gracious. He was totally different guy than the trash talking Gary Payton that I met.

[00:07:13] The most in stories I have about players are that where I find that I love these stories are

[00:07:18] off the floor, right? So I've seen Gary Payton at a bar and he buys me a drink while

[00:07:22] he's playing pool. And I told him that story and we had a good laugh about some other stuff

[00:07:26] that happened during our careers. But yeah, so I haven't seen Sean ever at a game. But I

[00:07:30] see Gary because obviously his son plays in the league and he's still connected in some

[00:07:33] ways with the leagues, but not Sean. Scott, the first NBA game you worked November 9th, 1994,

[00:07:39] I believe was the day a young and surprised second year Shaquille and Neil played a team at

[00:07:45] Charlotte's and they have two guys by the name of Larry Johnson and Alonzo Morning on the team.

[00:07:50] And what I remember about that game is it went to double or triple every time and I

[00:07:54] called a play on Nick Anderson that was not very good. Didn't cost anybody the game just

[00:07:58] wasn't a very good call. And Nick Anderson still likes to remind me of that 31 years later

[00:08:03] when I see him in Orlando. But I remember Shaquille, Larry and Alonzo were trying to fowl

[00:08:09] Shaquille as he went into his upper shooting motion and they were so he had 290 pound a man

[00:08:14] on this side. He had 290 pound a man on this side and he just took them both up to the

[00:08:18] dump rim and just dunked it. And I remember thinking everybody talked about how big Shaquille

[00:08:22] was but his agility, his speed, his strength, that was impressed me because there's lots

[00:08:28] of guys. So we see guys who aren't in the NBA walking out of the street or 740 but this guy

[00:08:31] was just an amazing specimen of a human being to be able to pull up in my first game and do that was

[00:08:38] like really amazing feat. So yeah, that was my first game. And my second game was actually

[00:08:44] with Ed Rush in San Antonio that Nick's played and I learned a valuable lesson that day.

[00:08:49] It was after that game we were talking about did my dad watch who was it? No, it was again

[00:08:54] my third game with Ed and he said, your dad watched the game. I said, nah, he just watches

[00:08:58] the big games. I didn't mean it like I've mentioned as in my dad thinks it's a big game. Every game

[00:09:03] was a big game to me and still it's how I prepare for every game but Ed Rush really

[00:09:08] drilled a home with me for the rest of my career that you have to take every game whether

[00:09:12] it's October 3rd or June 3rd or the same and prepare the way you want to perform on a

[00:09:17] consistent basis. So I actually remember my second game and things I learned more

[00:09:21] with from Ed Rush than what I first game was. That's so interesting and something I hadn't

[00:09:26] had planned to ask but I think it's important, right? How do you get up for a Tuesday night game

[00:09:32] in Charlotte, right? Against a bad Grizzlies team. Let's just say how do you add? If you ask Michael

[00:09:38] Jordan the same question he's going to go out and try and score 40 on them. If you ask

[00:09:41] any person who wants to be a lead at what they do, I don't care if you're our teacher or

[00:09:45] whatever you have to prepare every single day and get up for your day and go out to work.

[00:09:48] And so for me, there's the fear of failure and there's plenty of fear of Twitter and

[00:09:53] everything that really kills that comes with my job even on a good night. So if I take a night off

[00:09:58] where I don't get up for that game, I'm letting the game down for the that's the biggest thing

[00:10:02] you don't want to let the game down. I'm letting down my partners. I'm letting down the NBA.

[00:10:06] I have to focus every night and prepare tonight. And really if you do that it makes

[00:10:10] it so when you get to June 3rd and you have 300 million people all over the world watching you

[00:10:14] working for the NBA finals or game seven in the NBA finals, it takes some of that nervousness away

[00:10:20] because you've prepared every single night. Whereas if you take it now I'm going to work hard tonight

[00:10:25] not tomorrow. You're not going to have a successful career. I don't care what career you have with

[00:10:28] your NBA referee or a teacher or whatever. So yeah, being consistent in your preparation

[00:10:32] every night is big and I've never had a problem getting up for a game. I have routines I go

[00:10:37] through every night and when the ball goes up, I'm excited to be there every single

[00:10:40] night. Yeah, super cool. What we're talking about. Oh, good Steve. I just wanted to

[00:10:45] follow along the toughest call you have to make in a game. Yeah, if everybody will say

[00:10:50] block charge or something like that. For referees it's out of bounds for me anyway.

[00:10:55] You had the ball bouncing around and could hit one or three feet or a hundred different

[00:10:59] finger tip with fingers and goes out of bounds with lightning pace away from on a closed

[00:11:03] angle or to shoot down and you look for help. And so for me slowing down and getting out of

[00:11:08] bounds plays is really the toughest play. Block charge for me isn't difficult because we're

[00:11:14] trained to pick up the defenders, see their legality and then there's a collision. So you

[00:11:18] can figure out whether it was illegal or not legal. No matter how fast that is as long as

[00:11:22] your eyes are moving to where they're supposed to be, you're ahead of it. So it'd be like

[00:11:26] being a hitter and this is a lot. Being a hitter sometimes I give this analogy

[00:11:30] for fishing when I'm really on my game a 90 mile per hour fastball looks like a 75

[00:11:35] mile watermelon. And when I'm struggling a little bit, a 70 mile per hour fastball looks like a

[00:11:41] little peak. Having quick eyes and it's interesting to me that we have younger officials that figured

[00:11:46] out that you should train your eyes just like you do your biceps and training our eyes to be

[00:11:50] quick. And so I have an app in the game by no locker room part of my routine that I go through

[00:11:54] and you're searching for things you're playing a game and that's a video game but

[00:11:57] you're playing this game and it keeps your eyes moving rapidly quick. So when you're as

[00:12:02] you get older, it hopefully helps you zoom in, zoom out as people like we talked about with Sean Kemp

[00:12:07] coming to the rim at 400 miles per hour. And now all of a sudden someone comes out of nowhere and

[00:12:10] be able to see that contact. Yeah. So there's lots of things like that but out of bounds is

[00:12:14] the toughest call for me. Good. We talked a lot about your first year, your first couple of

[00:12:20] games back then nobody knew who you were right today. You take the court people know who

[00:12:24] you are. Scott how is that changed maybe your preparation? Who's

[00:12:30] who has got fostered in and who's got fostered now? What's changed in 30 years? My hair color's

[00:12:35] changed. I went from black to gray so that's the biggest thing that's changed how fast I run

[00:12:39] is changed but people might think oh Scott likes that part. The last thing in the world I want

[00:12:44] to do is be seen or be heard from or have to talk to a forward reporter after the game about

[00:12:48] what just happened in the game or be talked about on Twitter which is just part of the job

[00:12:53] now when I got in the NBA social media was a part of the job and unfortunately for me it is

[00:12:57] now. I would say the my first year in the leagues, my first couple years right out of the gate I had

[00:13:04] a situation my second year my first nationally televised game on NBC that was the way your career

[00:13:09] works in the NBA is you are an umpire that means you're the lowest person on the crew

[00:13:13] and then you become and then you hope to get some games that are high-profile and you're

[00:13:18] being rewarded in some way back then anyway maybe not so much now but back then it was like

[00:13:22] if I could work in NBC that's really showing that they trust me this was back in 1995

[00:13:25] Bob and so I was given a game on NBC was Phoenix and the Lakers and during the week

[00:13:32] Dennis Rodman had butted Teddy Bernhard and Nick Van Exel had bumped into Ronnie Garrison and then

[00:13:38] a lot of people came out and were like hey we just can't happen and then and not just with state

[00:13:43] but we had a game and no call and magic and I bumped into one another and I had ejected him

[00:13:48] from a game and then all of a sudden that's the first time the spotlight came on. I remember

[00:13:52] half time going to the locker room and Bob Costas is talking about it on tv and it was like Kennedy

[00:13:56] just got shot again where the space shovel just blew up and it was like this big thing and the only

[00:14:02] thing that kept me from this the cover sports illustrated is Greg Norman Blow and the uh

[00:14:06] six-shot lead to Nick Fowler. Anyway magic was so gracious sent me a nice letter afterwards that

[00:14:11] after the incident that's where the thing the class act that he is and and we moved on from

[00:14:16] there at whatever I remember the next night going to Denver and and Greg Grant had a problem

[00:14:21] with the play and it was play all kind of game whoever won was one of the playoffs I believe

[00:14:24] because it was like the last two of the season and when he went to ask me a question he was like

[00:14:29] hey Scott and I went yeah and he was I never mind and I went huh and he is you'll throw magic I

[00:14:34] know you'll throw me way out of here and I was like wait that's all that's not true but

[00:14:40] that's the first spotlight I had and then throughout the next 29 years it just

[00:14:45] became we grow and you get the bigger games that are on national tv over and over again or

[00:14:50] you're getting the files games for 20 years for your social media beating up over an article

[00:14:54] that was written about you that's gonna that's gonna happen the way you deal with it is you

[00:14:58] just go out and do the work and hopefully the work speaks for itself yeah but I'm in LA

[00:15:04] Steve's in Boston a Boston fan not in Boston but I remember that was magic had just come back

[00:15:09] right and so yeah it was a lot of excitement and so it was unique and I understand the

[00:15:14] blow-up but what I didn't understand until just now and what I think is unfair is

[00:15:19] you connect with these guys off the court you reconcile you work it out you and magic you and

[00:15:25] Gary Payton we don't know about that right so all everybody here's about is what they see and

[00:15:29] it's unfortunate but it's good to hear that let's say 90 percent of the time 75 percent of the

[00:15:34] time you're good with these guys off the court. People don't understand this what happens that

[00:15:38] in during the game is part of competition when I was a competitor I wasn't always the nicest

[00:15:42] guy in the world I'd be the first one to tell you that and when I talked to people

[00:15:46] like Gary Payton especially where you just realized that he was competing he was out there competing

[00:15:50] that you're not going to get the guy at Sunday school well he's competing and now there are some

[00:15:55] guys who can do that where they're just these gracious sides they can be all the time whether

[00:15:59] they're competing or not and that's awesome but when the games are over we can go to the bar

[00:16:04] and have a beer one of the best guys that used to always talk about this was Jerry Sloan

[00:16:09] like he would he'd scream and yell and I remember he and I got into and I actually

[00:16:13] apologized for something I said to him and he goes hey kid don't you worry

[00:16:16] well that ball goes up I'm going to get on you you get on me and I'll meet you at the

[00:16:19] Hilton for a beer afterwards and sure enough we went to the Hilton afterwards he was sitting

[00:16:21] right there and a beer came my way he was a man of his word that's how it should be right

[00:16:26] and and I think that most of the time not all the time but most of the time that that's what

[00:16:30] we move. I couldn't have known as a fan I think I appreciate that. Well one thing you have

[00:16:34] to remember is we understand that there are juices and we see the people on the court

[00:16:38] but we have to be we have to move on because we get graded on every single call every single

[00:16:43] decision and I'm not going to mess up another play that's going to make you mad because I want to

[00:16:48] get an A plus in my test every single night. I don't only get 99 out of 100 I want to try and get

[00:16:53] 100 out of 100. Have I ever done it? Oh I'm a big 0 for 1750 regular season games and an 0 for

[00:16:59] 300 playoff games and that's a lot of 0 first. I've never had a perfect game in my career so

[00:17:04] that'd be the first 100. Did you ever lose your cool during a game? Sure yeah you have to

[00:17:10] if it comes with your experience and your training where you have to make decisions

[00:17:14] out of what's happened rather than emotion and but you're always going to have a moment in your

[00:17:18] life and I'll care what you do for living where your emotions make you make a good decision

[00:17:23] or bad decision but yeah I mean I'd be lying if I didn't tell you that I've lost my emotions

[00:17:28] from time to time but I think that the manager team the NBA through the years has

[00:17:33] helped every referee with that and so that's why sometimes we get labeled as robotic or something

[00:17:38] like that or not unnatural or on that you know all these different words they use to describe us

[00:17:43] it's all because we're being trained on how to deal with people and so we come off as professional

[00:17:48] we can and then there's just nights where that's just not going to happen. You had mentioned

[00:17:53] getting graded and having an 0 for in your season which yeah I appreciate that honesty

[00:17:59] how does that work do you get graded immediately does it come via email is it weekly how does that

[00:18:04] work so it works a lot of different ways first of all every NBA referee is their own worst

[00:18:09] critic and if they're not it wouldn't be NBA referees and so when we get to locker room

[00:18:13] I've had people throw stuff in the locker room where they're like I can't believe I missed

[00:18:17] that car they're upset with themselves that sort of thing so when you when we do actually miss

[00:18:21] a play it's about 0.34 seconds after we make that mistake that we realize it before you see

[00:18:27] the replay and you realize it so we're in worst critics that's the first great but we do get great

[00:18:32] we have a review team that goes through each tape bounce by bounce the next day they form a report

[00:18:37] based on correct calls incorrect no calls correct no calls and they have all these different stats

[00:18:44] like they can call me in March and say we've noticed that you missed X amount of no travels

[00:18:49] which is above the league average we really need to work on pivot whatever or they could

[00:18:54] they can see trends in in my missing D3s whatever it might be so they have all this

[00:19:00] statistical analysis from from their data driven their reviews and so that helps them rank us as

[00:19:05] play callers for 1 to 74 that helps them to identify where we have weaknesses and they can

[00:19:11] help us and it also helps them with the weaknesses of our staff which then helps them say okay we

[00:19:16] need to really work on points of education or traveling or legal screens or whatever freedom

[00:19:21] whatever it is and so that data has been invaluable to the NBA in helping train us to you know be

[00:19:28] better than our jobs but yeah we're great like that we're also great at buying we have development

[00:19:34] advisors we have and then we have the head of vast operations head of raptory operations they all

[00:19:38] have a weigh-in on our rankings they put all that into a computer boom it spits out our

[00:19:43] composite ranking and we go from there I would say my development advisor being in my 31st year

[00:19:49] send me probably less plays than a first year referee but I get as many texts and emails saying

[00:19:54] hey you take a look at this what did you think about this hey can you help us with our report

[00:19:59] here so on and so forth and then after every game I follow game report with the NBA stating

[00:20:05] pretty much any pertinent mistake that the crew made during the game it may have changed

[00:20:10] how this team sucked or how the game proceeded to send that to the NBA and then it helps them

[00:20:15] again their evaluation the crew performance and their L2M yeah wow amazing I told you before

[00:20:22] we started talking I'm in tech that's my day job yeah we talked a lot about social media

[00:20:27] let's call it the bad side attack as it relates to the game I agree you're talking about

[00:20:34] the good side attack which is amazing to me the replay rule as a fan kind of changed things

[00:20:38] but I know that there's more technology in the horizon again we talked about this before

[00:20:42] we started the show so what are your thoughts on technology improving the game changing the game

[00:20:47] making your calls easier you had mentioned one particular technology that's coming soon if you

[00:20:51] could talk more about that yeah it's actually here so we have the Hawkeye system which is in

[00:20:55] the replay center it was used last year for goal tending and then with balls on downward

[00:21:00] flight and then ball in the cylinder and it's I think of the future of it's going to be

[00:21:03] whether which fingertip at last minute off of the hundred fingertips we're dealing with

[00:21:07] so they'll have that and then I'm sure there's some other uses for the Hawkeye but in the future

[00:21:11] I think we'll have referee wearing earpieces the ball go out of bounds and it'll be off

[00:21:15] number 41's left index finger and the replay center will say into the microphone it's white ball

[00:21:22] boom white ball and obviously if we don't go that direction I think the replay center will

[00:21:27] tell us quicker that it's white ball without us going over to the to the monitor and putting

[00:21:31] on the headsets and you know that's where they if it's challenged or maybe it's you know for

[00:21:36] whatever reason how would we get there that's here we've had you know we used to have replay in

[00:21:40] the last two minutes where I triggered replay where if I thought oh this is a really tough

[00:21:44] out of bounds ball I'm going to go take a look at it and what happened was you'd be in

[00:21:48] playoff games that really matter all the games matter but now you're in game six or

[00:21:52] your game seven yeah and you're in the last two minutes crunch time and you have to get

[00:21:56] these plays right so you feel the need to be confirmed on treat so many out of bounds plays

[00:22:01] so you're going over there and you could have been there finding out your right or your wrong

[00:22:04] and and slowing the game down the fans are ready to throw stuff on the floor that sort of thing

[00:22:08] so the NBA was smart they gave the coaches a challenge and now the coaches have to figure

[00:22:12] out do I hold the challenge for that out of bounds playing the last two minutes or the last

[00:22:16] that found the last two minutes and it's helped us move the game along and meanwhile

[00:22:20] come to find out in my video study that all those times we went over to look at the

[00:22:26] out of bounds the last two minutes to confirm ourselves we probably didn't need to do that

[00:22:29] because I can't think of one play this past season knock on wood that where I went oh my goodness we

[00:22:35] really kicked that out of bounds play and again like I said it's one of the harder plays in the game

[00:22:39] to to officiate so because it's so quick so something you're pro technology you're good

[00:22:45] I'm all about I'm fine with it they're kicking out of the papers and now with

[00:22:49] Twitter I'm all about it now I think it helps us do our jobs more efficiently or more effectively

[00:22:54] I remember back in the day with before replay watching knock down drag out fights between umpires

[00:23:00] and baseball and coaches face to face nose and nose bob yeah and you still see that from time to time

[00:23:05] but not as often because now it's just challenge oh he was sage challenge he was out you see people

[00:23:10] pretty much get thrown out now for arguing balls and strikes but you don't see anybody get

[00:23:14] thrown out for arguing whether you're safe or out at home or or on a tag play a second

[00:23:18] or you just see balls and strikes now which you know could be because they're being misled by the box

[00:23:24] that we all see on TV that isn't really the strike so again bad information to the public and I think

[00:23:30] sometimes in social media goes goofy it's really because they got bad information somewhere and

[00:23:35] that's a good illustration of it but I am pro technology I'm pro replay I didn't like replaying

[00:23:41] my first came in because I really looked at my first four years in the NBA before we had

[00:23:47] replay I looked at that as an opportunity to step up as an opportunity to step over it to a

[00:23:54] 30 year veteran and say no that shot was late we have to wipe that I know you swear but we got to

[00:23:59] wipe it and for a second you're at free to be able to go up to an ed rush or a joey craw for

[00:24:03] someone of those veterans back in the day and say you got it wrong I think it's late and then

[00:24:08] get it right was a great opportunity with replay now I can still do that but nobody if there's

[00:24:14] not this there's a safety net to make sure that we get it right so you know when I first got a league

[00:24:20] there was by word 70 games in the season there's 280 last second shots and I would take that

[00:24:26] an opportunity 280 times to say is it good or is it late oh it's late and then if somebody scored

[00:24:31] I was able to go into a finals referee in my second year and say hey they shouldn't win

[00:24:37] they should win because the shots late and that happens several times in my first four years

[00:24:42] and I think it led to my um assent to crew chief and then to the playoffs and to the ultimate

[00:24:47] seeded fonts so that's gone for young referees now I think that was a great opportunity when I was

[00:24:52] first there but that's okay this is better because we get the plays right more often

[00:24:57] because of yeah and you don't have a situation which replay we had a game and this was actually

[00:25:03] interesting we had a game five and I think it was Jersey Indiana and the there was a game

[00:25:10] winning shy believed by Reggie and it sent the game to overtone it was late but they scored it

[00:25:16] but what happened was so we got replayed next year so when we were being trained on replay the next

[00:25:21] year nobody ever told us whether we got to play right in the Indiana jersey game but when we were

[00:25:26] in the studio with doing the thing with the replay we realized that the clock that you see

[00:25:31] on tv has one tent more than the actual clock so if you're watching at home and you see the

[00:25:38] ball come out of Reggie's hand it says point one on the superimposed clock but if you're in the arena

[00:25:42] it said zero and so really on wood was shooting a basketball we were showing the technology

[00:25:48] and all of a sudden we all went oh my god now one tenth of a second doesn't sound like a lot but

[00:25:52] guess what in basketball that's 27 frames and is it nine it's a number of frames of film

[00:26:00] you being a tech guy could tell me but we were like maybe they did get it right in New Jersey

[00:26:04] or actually it actually meant that you got it wrong in New Jersey but New Jersey ended up

[00:26:08] winning the series and moving on I believe they went to the finals that year but that call almost

[00:26:12] changed history and so that was and then unfortunately I was a part of a rule we all you don't want to

[00:26:18] be a part of a rule change I called what I thought was goal-tending in the game in Portland

[00:26:22] which sent the game to overtime and it was like thought everybody thought we got it right in

[00:26:26] fact the announcer told me I got it right and I get back to locker room and I got it wrong

[00:26:29] and the next year they put in goal 10 replet and then one of my bosses had a restrictory block where

[00:26:35] we couldn't rule on this thing we'd replay with the inability to get it right when that should never

[00:26:40] happen and they were like you know what that's wrong we shouldn't do that and they changed that

[00:26:43] replay so anytime you could help me get these plays you not look like a fool while I'm sitting

[00:26:47] or looking at it on replay I'm all about it nice yeah it sounds oh Steve go ahead no no I

[00:26:54] wanted to switch gears unless you have something else gets related so yeah let me finish with

[00:26:58] this because I'm getting the sense Scott you're not the and I understand it right as a numpire is a

[00:27:03] referee you don't you don't want the attention on you you want it on the game right there and I get

[00:27:07] I certainly understand that but there's a point right when you have the replay where you've got

[00:27:12] to go in those national and Calvary games and you've got to get on camera in front of us bands

[00:27:17] right and you have to explain it right Billy Kennedy is great at that right he's I think

[00:27:22] he enjoyed it I think he's I think the word you look for is prismatic 100% do you dislike

[00:27:27] doing that no it's not that I don't dislike it I don't have really a preference either way but I

[00:27:33] would say is that anytime I can be the voice of what's going on rather than an announcer who probably

[00:27:38] doesn't know as much as I do about officiating the NBA which is all of them and I respect them all

[00:27:44] but I got my guys I like to pull around with Jeff and Gunn the end to say I'm glad I get to talk

[00:27:49] now but you know and you don't get into all the talking now I get to say something but even

[00:27:52] after I give him the answer he'll say no Scott's wrong like I just looked at the replays

[00:27:56] but anyway yeah so I like it because I think when we can have the ability to voice what we saw why we

[00:28:03] have to do what we're doing it helps everybody understand why we're doing what we're doing rather

[00:28:07] than you know whatever we've had plays there was an interesting play in Utah a couple years ago where

[00:28:12] the ball it didn't appear to ever go out of bounds and the guy who did the broadcast

[00:28:18] didn't explain why they were giving the ball back to whatever whoever was whether it be Utah

[00:28:22] visiting team and if you go and we're all even me I was watching him like what are they doing how are

[00:28:27] they getting out the back but no one saw it hit the referee's shoe who was sitting out of bounds

[00:28:32] who's standing out of bounds which means the ball is out of bounds and so we didn't do a good

[00:28:35] job of explaining that and it caused this storm on Twitter and everywhere else and we

[00:28:40] had to play recruited anyway and but we didn't explain it correctly and I think that's a great

[00:28:45] illustration of why this is such a good thing I think that we're going to continue to get

[00:28:49] better at the NFL officials I think are fantastic at it they've trained at it and now we're being

[00:28:54] trained much better and I think some people are more comfortable than doing it than others but

[00:28:58] but I think overall it's a good thing to have us tell you as much as we can

[00:29:03] to help educate the public yeah get back one thing you thought of something we talked

[00:29:07] about earlier and I think would uh lachaneer you talk about officials always talk about

[00:29:12] sleepless nights and being their own self replay think about Jim Joyce I think about Jim

[00:29:17] Joyce all the time here's a guy who has successful career and and there's other officials in

[00:29:21] in every sport that have this bill Buckner moment and and I think that wouldn't Jim Joyce love to

[00:29:28] have had replay that night for that challenge you come in now we have this historical game

[00:29:32] that is historical and I know for a fact he would love to have that back and I was I saw

[00:29:39] there's a special come out whether it be ESPN or whatever and I was like I just that is my

[00:29:43] worst nightmare I'm living this life this historical life and you're in these games of history and now

[00:29:50] you're on the wrong side of history and all you want to do is get it right all you want to do is get

[00:29:54] right so yeah and for those unaware Jim Joyce baseball on par who famously infamously maybe

[00:30:02] got a wrong call costing a player Armando Galaraga perfect game something that only

[00:30:06] 20 some odd players have done in the history of baseball so yeah that's rough and I appreciate

[00:30:12] Jim Joyce admitting it I appreciate him and Armando Galaraga being pals about it they're friendly

[00:30:17] which is pretty amazing in my book he's got that perfect perfect game Steve go ahead no I just

[00:30:23] switch gears a little bit Scott the first of all what's the worst situation I always like to look

[00:30:29] at the negative side of things what's the worst situation my whole life was in the negative

[00:30:34] like this summertime shouldn't we live on the positive side of things that's my whole life

[00:30:38] worst situation you ever got in in a game or whatever well I think the goal 10 play that ranks

[00:30:45] when you get back to the locker room you thought you got a right because four announcers are telling

[00:30:48] you you got a right good call we're going to overtime and then you get back and find out

[00:30:51] you got it wrong and then the other team loses and then they go on an eight game losing streak

[00:30:55] then the coach gets fired the game after I come back to me Paul and I missed in that game

[00:30:59] and he's a great guy and he's a hard-nosed you know worker and you feel like you cost

[00:31:03] the guy's job my decisions impact other people's livelihoods and so that's again another reason why

[00:31:08] it's easy to get up every single night because I don't want to be I don't want to call Steve a

[00:31:12] coaching gig that there's only 29 of them or 30 of them in the NBA and you don't want to you've

[00:31:18] you got people's livelihoods in your hands you got to be good anyway but that's the worst

[00:31:22] case scenario where you've had a gamer call that you got wrong the best feeling is when

[00:31:27] you get it right when you the right team when you go oh my god and you know I've been in the NBA

[00:31:32] for 31 years I can count on maybe two hands maybe one where you come in at the buzzer and go I got

[00:31:38] it wait that's about put two tenths back on nope sorry you're not going to win you're gonna win

[00:31:42] and it was the right call it was the right call that's how you make your living and you make

[00:31:46] your bones in the NBA where people are they trust you to have the courage to make those calls

[00:31:52] and whether you're on the road or your home and you're gonna be in the press or whatever

[00:31:55] you got to make the right decision so that's the best feeling when you get it right the worst is

[00:31:59] is when you get it wrong what about fans how about that any stories about that fans are fans I try to

[00:32:08] I try to keep it between 94 and 50 unfortunately every time I go to talk to a fan when I turn around

[00:32:13] there's 23 cell phones on me and if I say something even a little out of character they can take it

[00:32:18] out of context to get so you really have to be careful with just so nowadays I don't speak

[00:32:22] to fans very often I'll smile with them or maybe chuck with them I had a guy this year who I told

[00:32:27] hey you gotta be more original come on I've heard all this stuff come on be more rich come on get it

[00:32:31] to me bring it because I can take it and he got a big kick out and he kept trying every quarter

[00:32:35] during timeouts and he never came with anything original and really most stuff that fans say if

[00:32:40] they say something original I get a kick out of it I laugh it's fun I don't take myself as serious

[00:32:44] since people probably think but and I get a good kick out when someone gives me a good

[00:32:48] stinger I'm not all about it it's good stuff but the only fan story I'll tell you is I did throw

[00:32:54] out magic Johnson Jack Nicholson came out on the floor and he gave me the choke sign and I remember

[00:33:00] literally was at mid court and like in the center of the court and I was like Jack Nicholson's

[00:33:04] down the court I got people throwing ketchup bottles at me all kinds of stuff and so when we

[00:33:08] came back from half time I was standing there with no one fine god rest his soul and I said

[00:33:11] you know what I should have done I should have thrown that so-and-so Jack Nicholson out for

[00:33:14] coming out of the court just as I said that nasty word and Jack Nicholson in the same sentence

[00:33:19] I get a tap on my shoulder and it's Jack Nicholson and he's out he came out

[00:33:23] made court and he's apologizing for coming out he says I didn't know magic puppy Scott I'm sorry

[00:33:28] can't do you that I'm sorry I had the sunglasses on him the whole LA thing going on and and then

[00:33:32] from there on I would see Jack and he would say hello and I would tease my partner says

[00:33:36] all in my second or third year and third year veteran Jack would come go hey Scott how are

[00:33:41] you Scott oh and I'd be with a say Hugh Hollander something like that who'd been around for 25 years

[00:33:45] and he would just keep walking I'd look at I go Hugh hey Hugh Jack knows my name how about that

[00:33:50] noon so just have a little fun with it but I went and saw a movie a couple years later

[00:33:55] I see it's many years later and it was about Schmidt and so that was the movie that

[00:33:59] Jack Nicholson got a lot of press on he got a lot of awards on and I didn't particularly

[00:34:03] enjoy the movie and so we had a game in LA with 50 seconds left I believe

[00:34:08] Kobe went baseline on a hook move and I was trying to spin towards baseline he hooked Elton

[00:34:13] Campbell and I called an offensive foul that basically sealed the Lakers fate and Charlotte

[00:34:17] I believe at the time was maybe one of the bottom three teams in the league on the road

[00:34:21] and I looked up and Jack was giving me that same joke sign and he sat down that end of the

[00:34:27] way from the home bench and he came down he's giving me a good piece of his mind and

[00:34:33] he kept saying that's the worst call I've seen in 34 years in these seats Scott

[00:34:36] that's the worst call and I'm not one of those guys who's quick-witted that where I can come up

[00:34:41] with something I always think about 20 minutes later or two days I should have said this right

[00:34:44] but this one I was waiting on him I was waiting on him and I looked Jack and so that makes

[00:34:48] us even Jack because the voucher miss the worst effin movie I've ever seen and Lou Adler

[00:34:52] who is sitting there I guess he's a big time with Sony or somebody he literally fell out

[00:34:57] of the seat laughing and so that's my only fan story the other fan story was actually fun

[00:35:02] was game five in the finals Matt Damon and Mark Wahlberg were sitting court side and Paul Pierce

[00:35:09] goes off and bring like Boston they closed to within one Phil Jackson jumps off the bench and comes out

[00:35:14] and I told this story to a group about 40 referees at camp one year it just in the bar having fun

[00:35:19] and on a podcast I won't say that podcast but on a podcast Matt Damon actually goes word for word

[00:35:26] with this story I told on a Tuesday like six days later just like I'm telling you now and

[00:35:30] so Phil Jackson got out of the seat and comes running at me and I thought he was going to

[00:35:33] take a technical bow I had no idea why and he stops on a dime he looked the time out oh okay my bad

[00:35:39] okay time out and then he turned to Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon and said some really nasty stuff

[00:35:45] basically sit down and watch you two so and so sit down and suck the f up blah blah and I

[00:35:50] remember Mark Wahlberg's arms are like this big and Matt Damon there I think Matt Damon had just

[00:35:54] done born ultimatum or whatever he did and they both just sat down in their seats and

[00:35:58] that's welcome back Matt Damon or Mark said how's that Zen stuff working out for you and I remember

[00:36:03] just being like I'm present the moment watching this and then when they came back Kobe cheering

[00:36:08] like 12 year olds and I think that's why Phil was so magazine right next to the bench and as

[00:36:13] Kobe walked by he looked at Matt and I think he said something like not tonight motherfuckers

[00:36:18] yeah so it was a really cool scene and then on top of that I put the ball back in play and

[00:36:23] as I was going up the court my wife's favorite birthday twin artist was I had appeared out of

[00:36:28] nowhere in a cloud of purple and Prince was sitting court sided game five in the NBA finals and that

[00:36:34] was one of my top moments in the NBA is just seeing all this living in the moment and seeing all this

[00:36:39] silliness going on me so as far as fans go you know I don't really I don't when I'm doing my

[00:36:46] actual job I'm pretty focused on what I'm doing I don't hear the guy in the 23rd right I hear

[00:36:50] the guy in the second row but not most of those people behave maybe it's not those people because

[00:36:54] they got to see me time and time again well they paid a lot for those seats they don't want to get

[00:36:58] kicked out too usually people get kicked out or using their balls to seats or it's their first

[00:37:02] time sitting down low and where they came up from the rafters and or they won them for you

[00:37:06] the mile I don't know how they got here but they the people who sit courts that usually know

[00:37:09] we don't get like this and they get a cargo for the game saying don't behave like this so

[00:37:14] when I was in Washington growing up a Robin figure would sit behind the fence of the

[00:37:17] the bullets and he would scream and yell at the team and he was a part of the show and then the I

[00:37:22] think when they went to the news place in the Verizon center down downtown DC they told Robin

[00:37:27] figure you can't sit there and he said no thank you I want to sit there or else so he took his

[00:37:30] money and went somewhere else but yeah we have all kinds of stories like that just going off

[00:37:35] and out travel how was that like on the road just let's say you go from one place to the next

[00:37:41] and you have a time you have to be there just just a little bit about

[00:37:46] yeah an average month for me it'll be about 12 13 games a month I work pretty much every other night

[00:37:52] some nights back to back and maybe if I had let's say I had LA Clippers on a Friday I could work

[00:37:57] the Lakers on Saturday they're playing different opponent and that helps I like that because I

[00:38:01] just stand in the same bed and go to the same arena great same thing with places are really

[00:38:05] tight like Chicago on the walk they make convenient but normally I have to be in the

[00:38:09] night before the game if I'm working a back to back I have to take the first light out the next

[00:38:12] day to the next game and I'm on the road 21 to 23 days a month during the season sometimes more

[00:38:20] sometimes less and then when the playoffs occur the first two weeks the playoffs for me are

[00:38:24] pretty busy I work um depending on how the series goes as far as they assign us the games

[00:38:29] before they even happen but I'll be on the road for probably the first two and a half

[00:38:33] weeks of the playoffs so you're grinding you're going hard you might get home

[00:38:36] for a day here day there but you're really locked in and you're getting after it which is fun

[00:38:40] best time of the year it's not worst thing in the world but it's not like we're going from

[00:38:43] Portland to Miami I'm working for a little Tuesday in Miami on Thursday that doesn't happen

[00:38:47] more like Portland then Denver or Denver then Phoenix close Utah whatever that's close

[00:38:53] and so that's how we do it and we work in cruise we work in cruise but very rarely

[00:38:58] does the same crew travel together to another game but sometimes we do but usually if

[00:39:03] I'm working on LA with two other people and the next night I might be working in Portland

[00:39:06] with two other people. When do you get your schedule how do you get the whole season

[00:39:11] schedule or a little bit or? Now baseball gets their schedule the whole season like my

[00:39:15] umpire friends will send it hey I'm coming to someone's here to look at my whole schedule

[00:39:18] and I wouldn't that be great but no the this the NBA season is a little more fluid I think

[00:39:23] and so we get our schedule uh usually the fifth of the month prior so let's say I'm working in

[00:39:28] December I'll get my December schedule on November 5th but if let's say they know I'm

[00:39:33] going to work Christmas day they'll probably tell me in about three or four weeks by the way

[00:39:36] we decide you're working Christmas and don't make any plans and so and sometimes like like

[00:39:41] I'll volunteer for Christmas because my kids are old and we have other crew chiefs they

[00:39:45] have young kids and I want them to do the Santa Claus thing and I'll just go work yeah so

[00:39:48] people did that for me when I was young and that's why I do it for them so but yeah the

[00:39:53] travel I still it used to be travel was the toughest part of the job and now it's still

[00:39:57] I mean it wears on your foot you get used to it's a lifestyle favorite cities that's what I'm

[00:40:03] doing yeah my favorite city is anywhere it has pickleball courts and I like doing that warm weather

[00:40:09] is fun but even now today with indoor pickleball that sort of thing but I like doing outdoorsy

[00:40:13] stuff some people make and choose the fact that I like going say Phoenix that means I like

[00:40:17] the Phoenix Suns that's not necessarily the case the town of Phoenix is usually 70 degrees

[00:40:21] LA is 70 degrees but Miami's 70 degrees during the winter and so anytime you can get away from 32

[00:40:27] below in Minnesota to go to 75 in Miami you want to go there but that doesn't mean I don't like

[00:40:33] Minnesota because I like going to Minnesota because I have lots of friends I play pickleball

[00:40:36] with them in the indoors obviously don't play outdoors during January and pickleball but but

[00:40:40] anyway there's lots of things I like walking to the garden instead of like I literally always

[00:40:44] walk to the garden for the games because I just the energy in the streets of New York

[00:40:48] really pumped me up it just it's really cool to just walk the streets and my my my crew dates laugh

[00:40:54] because we're walking down the street somebody'll just do me just add blue foster and they're joking

[00:40:58] or maybe they're being serious but it's fun yeah so I love doing that I like going to a lot of

[00:41:03] the cities I like going to Denver because I can go for a hike I could go into so many places

[00:41:08] it depends on this season where we are in season when the warm when it's April I want to maybe

[00:41:12] out be somewhere where where we can get outside and just enjoy the outdoors yeah

[00:41:17] restaurants and things like that though I have I have my spots everywhere like in Philadelphia

[00:41:22] I build breakfast which is my spot where I can get scrapplin eggs which if you're from Maryland

[00:41:27] you know what that's all about and not people don't eat scrapple but we do and then if I'm

[00:41:31] in Boston I got my clam chatter place if I'm in Portland I got my state place or Denver

[00:41:35] same thing and everywhere you go you make the list of places you want to go and and

[00:41:40] things you want to do as far as eating or seeing people and that's really one of the perks of the

[00:41:44] job is getting to travel and see different people and that my friends all over the country so they're

[00:41:49] excited to see me when they get two free tickets to an NBA game I'm sure that goes a long way

[00:41:54] scenes of the season yeah is there any point of emphasis right that that the NBA maybe gives you

[00:42:01] rest listen we're gonna crack down on traveling we're gonna crack down on this is that change

[00:42:05] here is a pretty standard year to year now changes it changes from year to year based on that

[00:42:09] statistical analysis I believe they do or the the board of governors will come up with through

[00:42:14] their competition maybe that's where I think where we've maybe been lax and or let some slippage get

[00:42:18] into our game and then we'll really crack down on that or say we have a new rule coming up

[00:42:23] like maybe it was this year we just had the flopping rule come in and so we'll be educated

[00:42:27] a lot more on that and then we'll be sent videos more so all the time about that I think

[00:42:33] traveling has been everybody wrong why don't you call traveling we don't call traveling because

[00:42:36] you probably don't know what traveling is what traveling is in high school basketball and college

[00:42:42] basketball isn't the same as an NBA based solely on our interpretation of the gather step or whatever

[00:42:48] post play it's the same high school and in you know in the NBA and so everybody can

[00:42:53] complain about that but when it comes to gather place a lot of times you'll see Yadis go 44 feet

[00:42:57] in two steps and wonder how that's not traveling but it's because he can go 44 feet in two steps

[00:43:02] not any specissious here and I'm kidding but yeah I've seen so many people put on look at so and so

[00:43:09] he took five steps and then when you break it down you see the ball hovering or you see the ball

[00:43:13] get loose or you the ball got tapped or he took a late gather set gathered it while the foot was

[00:43:18] down now he gets two more it looks like three I get it and then of course we do have the

[00:43:21] egregious miss from time to time where you just go I hope that's not me on that video

[00:43:25] good it's not and yeah but every year traveling is one of our points of education

[00:43:30] screening a couple years was a point of education free movement point of education

[00:43:34] flopping point of education freedom we call it respect for the game guidelines point of education

[00:43:39] which is basically and we're not to let people throw the ball in the stands we're not going to let

[00:43:42] people bow the ball and talk like this we're we're gonna allow you to but then it educates

[00:43:46] the players we're gonna allow you to do this but then you gotta come down that sort of thing

[00:43:50] yeah it helps us it used to be we had referees and I might qualify for this we had referees who

[00:43:57] a guy would call you every name of the book and no technical and then you had other referees would

[00:44:01] call you some of the names of the book and definitely be a terrible foul and what we had to do

[00:44:05] was we had to bring those two groups of people closer together and make it so we're all in between

[00:44:11] the 45 yard line on each side of the 50 yard line rather than on the 10 yard line at the

[00:44:16] extent of the football field and so having those points of education each year helps it

[00:44:20] to make it I'll give you another example place in the basket they had some referees who

[00:44:26] would call if there were if the ball went in it's never and this I'm talking in 1970s

[00:44:31] okay I'm not talking about it I'm talking with a long time ago and so again the NBA getting the

[00:44:36] staff to a point where we're all consistent and trying to call the same contact of foul

[00:44:40] that's not a foul and again we live in the gray we know that so that's hard to that's hard to

[00:44:46] explain to people who are not in NBA referees even people who are connected to the NBA

[00:44:52] are and it's hard to explain and honestly sometimes we'll be at camp and we'll put a play up

[00:44:57] and we'll have 75 referees in there and we'll take a vote or we'll argue and argue was the block

[00:45:03] was the charge was it a block was the charge was it in the little screen with it and it'd be 40

[00:45:07] to 35 and it's like how can this be and so if you have us arguing about it imagine

[00:45:13] Celtic Pierce Lakers fans arguing about it so we get it yeah you mentioned traveling and

[00:45:19] ridden out a couple other things that you know as a fan or frustrating and it's probably just not

[00:45:23] seeing it wrong but three seconds and pulling me in the ball those seem like that could be called

[00:45:28] every time down the court so Jose I want to ask you a question how old are you I'm 60 years old

[00:45:33] okay so I was gonna say you're at least 60 years old here's why I was just at the pickle

[00:45:38] ball courts and this happens to me every day because everybody at the pickle ball courts is

[00:45:41] 60 years old and so anybody you're older if they remember Bob Puzi and Jerry West dribbling a basket

[00:45:51] even Oscar Robison dribbling a basket like this handle top of the ball and then I'm just gonna use the

[00:45:57] name Ellen Iverson comes along he brings some playground ball into and the ball the hand becomes

[00:46:01] to the side of the ball so well then even my dad when he would ask oh my god you called a carry

[00:46:07] knight I'm like my dad's gonna be crap about my balls and he's a ball to carry I didn't think he called

[00:46:11] that anyway I'm like dad his hand went under the ball he wasn't on the side of the ball and so we

[00:46:16] have guidelines for carries and that is the ball has to come do a followed by the hand goes

[00:46:19] underneath the ball and we we do things like read the defender and defender gets frozen

[00:46:24] yeah because he shows in the ball then goes so obviously carry but a hand on the side of the

[00:46:28] ball to a 60 year old or an 80 year old doesn't look like Bob Puzi and it doesn't look like

[00:46:33] it doesn't look like Jerry West and so I guess the point my point is that everybody

[00:46:38] above 60 65 75 they always ask about the carry I never have a 20 year old say yeah you guys just

[00:46:44] don't go sharing never be ready never happen but it's all because the guidelines were used on

[00:46:49] how to judge that play and what we deem as an advantage from allowing the ball to come to a

[00:46:54] pause and so that's one thing the traveling again the gather step makes things look a lot worse

[00:47:00] speed the game we were trained for gosh I don't know how many years to referee the defense which

[00:47:05] means you're your main focus on the defense the ball at the end of this right there he hasn't

[00:47:10] started to dribble yet and you're deep you're you have your head on the defender now this

[00:47:14] guy makes a move and you go huh and then you're ref the defense so you didn't see the jack step

[00:47:18] where he moved his pivot foot so our training has changed now we go foot dribble defend right

[00:47:24] so you you're on the feet you're on the dribble now you got a defender so we have a new sequence

[00:47:28] so we can referee that play much better and people will say they always people that say

[00:47:33] always or never I can refute that every single time because there's never an always and there's

[00:47:38] never an there's no there's always ever I can show that statistically our travel calls are up

[00:47:46] hundreds of percent since 19 whatever or 2000 or whatever so we're getting better at it

[00:47:51] we're calling more of them I think if you ask some of our players we're calling too many

[00:47:56] because these guys work on their moves these guys work they do work and they work on their moves

[00:48:03] and when you do call a travel that's not a travel and you've taken that thing they've worked on so

[00:48:08] many hours in the gym they're out there today they're all working they all have three workouts

[00:48:12] today they're getting ready for the season they're working all those moves and when you take

[00:48:15] that away from them you take two points away from their team it's a big deal and that's

[00:48:19] just part of what we do and so calling a travel that's not there is part of our problem as well

[00:48:24] but no we just keep watching the tape and when you're watching tape and from my eyes and travels you

[00:48:30] go god you get you're angry because you you were watching the feet but you didn't see the feet split

[00:48:35] or you didn't realize it was a right foot was a bit foot you thought it was his left foot and

[00:48:39] they take soft you go oh dog on it and you miss yeah you should see the angry when we're in

[00:48:44] tape sessions when we miss travels you take the pad you throw it across the room and

[00:48:48] it's comical but we that's one of those plays I probably get more mad about missing a travel than

[00:48:52] I do and now about of a space probably not just get it as a fan rate because that's always been our

[00:49:00] focus here on the site the number one thing that people ask me is about that two minute report

[00:49:07] right that comes out generally speaking fans they don't see the point right it just it's

[00:49:14] a logical and I made the point earlier to you they which is used to justify people's twitter

[00:49:18] rants right see I told you I was right yeah what it doesn't change anything do you that thorough

[00:49:23] clipboards over that two minute reporting guys do you as a referee not really care about that

[00:49:27] if i'm being honest it it doesn't affect me one way or the other I get a little frustrated when

[00:49:32] maybe a play that is judged incorrect could have been correct or vice versa I think sometimes we

[00:49:37] on say Monday that the L2M will say this is the legal play and something this much different

[00:49:42] will happen Wednesday and we say it's an illegal play and that's the difference is that the line

[00:49:46] of rain it the shade of gray that we were in and so there's some frustration there I would say

[00:49:51] from from my standpoint but what I would also say about that is that the the public I think

[00:49:58] everybody focuses on the negative of those L2Ms which is if you look there's 42 decisions and you

[00:50:05] have two NCIs one is something we haven't called in three years or maybe it's or maybe it's just

[00:50:11] that it really almost unfathomable to call that because you couldn't see that with the naked

[00:50:16] eye that sort of thing and they've done a better job on the L2M of allowing some human

[00:50:19] error as far as okay you only move this pivot with that much we're not gonna you're not gonna say

[00:50:23] that's a travel if you move this foot here but everyone focuses on the negative and they don't

[00:50:27] look at the positive and when we do say something positive they have not I still don't believe it

[00:50:32] they're just covered in itself like wait a second we told you all this negative stuff over here

[00:50:36] we had a game some years ago that had 14 errors in it in the last they had overtime so

[00:50:40] they're doing six minutes of L2Ms two in the four two in the first server two and you have

[00:50:44] you do a triple overtime game you have eight minutes of calls decisions that people are gonna see

[00:50:50] that's almost a whole quarter and then they see four errors in eight minutes and you go oh my god

[00:50:55] and that is a lot if we did it we did 24 hours in a 48 minute game that's above our average

[00:51:00] by a lot but again we focus on the negative too often and then when the positive is out there

[00:51:06] nobody wants to believe that so that's where it's damned if we do we're damned if we

[00:51:10] don't know the whole point of the L2M is not to educate the public but it's also

[00:51:17] to be transparent with our work and and that I'm fine with because in my game reports that I send

[00:51:23] to the NBA after the game it's usually my words in that L2M I'll see my exact quote that I put

[00:51:28] in my game for so-and-so moved his pivot foot prior to the dribble blah blah and now you go

[00:51:32] I just sold my crew out that's the honesty in my work and I take pride in that honesty

[00:51:36] because that way the NBA trusts me explicitly to work game seven in the NBA finals because

[00:51:42] I'm gonna tell them yes we messed up or no I disagree we didn't mess so but I think the L2M

[00:51:48] is a necessary evil in a lot of ways for the NBA not similar much for me Scott

[00:51:55] this is one of my last one for you guys for the NBA player you said before and we all know

[00:52:01] they they play year-round they're working on their game all the time yeah during the season how much

[00:52:06] work you guys putting in besides the actual game because then in the summer how much work you guys

[00:52:11] putting in studying and doing whatever it is that you do yes let's start with the end season

[00:52:16] let's start at the preseason so right now we have camp three weeks from today or tomorrow

[00:52:19] and we're all getting ready for our physicals and getting our bodies ready to go and you

[00:52:23] know obviously being fit in seven years old it takes me a little you know more to to

[00:52:27] figure out how I'm going to do this I'm doing cold plunge I'm running I'm doing the cycling

[00:52:31] the peloton all this stuff and getting your body ready for the preseason is pretty much the biggest

[00:52:35] thing you can do and then of course refreshing your rules knowledge your case knowledge

[00:52:39] all that stuff and just being sharp with the rules so when you take your tests and you come

[00:52:43] to camp you're prepared um that's important once the season starts it's a non-stop

[00:52:47] grind from October 4th to the day you stop working playoff games or and even the people

[00:52:52] who don't work in the finals are still watching games in the playoffs every night they're texting you

[00:52:57] hey which thing about this play hey I clip this play I saw on twitter hey and we have all kinds of

[00:53:03] websites we use we have a system where I can go to the computer I can go to a play I can clip

[00:53:11] the play I can make a link I can send it to Steve and Steve can then look at my call from

[00:53:16] nine different angles and tell me oh left hand held angle shows you were right it was a clock

[00:53:20] or oh overhead right angle shows it was a charge that's where things so we are doing that every

[00:53:26] single day and then on top of that our development advisors are sending emails texts and stuff like

[00:53:31] with those same links so let's say they see your review come back six days after the game and it

[00:53:36] shows that Scott made eight or more errors they'll red flag that game and say geez Scott had a bad

[00:53:40] night we gotta find out what went on either our reviewer had a bad night or Scott had a bad

[00:53:44] night okay okay oh we'll give Scott credit for a great call there okay so now he's down to seven

[00:53:49] but he's still had a bad night and then might share those links with me or the other referees that

[00:53:53] are part of our program and that'll help me to grow and to identify where I'm weak and so that

[00:54:00] happens every day then on top of that if you are good at your job you have a group of people you

[00:54:07] are constantly in contact with so I have a group of different text groups not just one different

[00:54:12] text groups where we're constantly sharing information asking questions sharing links it can go on all

[00:54:17] day and so one of my text chains during a playoff game is if one of us is working the other three

[00:54:21] guys are texting an entire game you'll go back to half time and you'll look at your phone there's

[00:54:25] 321 texts and it's about your game so you're going through and you're looking at oh hey guys look

[00:54:29] at 921 they say I got that wrong or hey look at 921 they said that's a good call you know what I mean

[00:54:34] so you're again you're becoming more and more aware with every game the workload is every day also

[00:54:40] in the season we do things called video breakdowns where as a crew we have to sit and we have

[00:54:47] to have a forum and we go bounce by bounce and we discuss that the whether the call is right or

[00:54:52] wrong why what we did positive play what we did negative on the planning it just helps educate

[00:54:57] teach it helps facilitate good discussion between the crew and honestly watching videotape as a crew

[00:55:03] leads to exponential learning and it makes for a faster steeper climb for any referee I can

[00:55:09] I've seen so many younger referees or high school referees where I see them in

[00:55:13] camp in June of this year they watch tape 40 games from this year and because of that their improvement

[00:55:19] is much more steep than if they were just not to ever watch tape so we do that every day and then

[00:55:25] we do that as a group then on top of that we have weekly tests we have all kinds of stuff that we do

[00:55:30] on mumbies so we're held account people don't think we're held accountable right I don't know

[00:55:35] that there's any bore anybody else anywhere held accountable or scrutinized as much as

[00:55:40] nb of referees are and I say that as humbly as I possibly can but we hold ourselves accountable the

[00:55:46] mba holds us accountable and then we're created and evaluated consistently or never and ever again

[00:55:51] about how many calls are made in a game so I said seven hours I'm trying to figure out

[00:55:58] you said if you had seven hours you had a bad game so I'm just right yeah you're in context

[00:56:04] of that yeah so I think the average NBA game probably has used to have you know back in

[00:56:09] the 90s or say Stockton in Milan with Utah that generation we'd have 50 50 fouls 54 fouls a game

[00:56:15] now we are down where we don't have as much post play the game more wide open more freedom of movement

[00:56:21] people running around shooting threes no pressure on the basket as much we used to no not as much

[00:56:25] isolation in the float posts at two man game um so our fouls have gone down in early microbiota

[00:56:32] 54 down I'm thinking probably 40 42 somewhere in there some nights 38 sometimes 16 you know I tell

[00:56:38] younger or freestand times look who we had tonight these guys just don't foul so don't worry about

[00:56:42] that you don't have too many whistles like relax good decisions could be no call so

[00:56:46] go relax and just referee the game because we have coaches who are teaching don't foul

[00:56:50] let's just go as fast as we can and see was 142 points so that's fun and it's a good

[00:56:55] back so anyway I would say let's say we have 40 foul calls that's not how many decisions we

[00:57:01] have we have so many no-call corrects and incorrects and you know violations that's

[00:57:05] where things let's just say on a night we're graded on 120 plays if the crew has more than 10

[00:57:14] errors that's where you go and hope we could have done better you don't get too upset you

[00:57:18] know like oh my god we're terrible but and obviously errors can be weighted if I miss

[00:57:23] that three seconds at 1151 and I miss a guy getting his arm chopped off at 0.9 in a tie game

[00:57:29] those are two big bigger different errors we all know that but in our review process

[00:57:34] those errors are the same right you know who had a better night the guy missed the 1151

[00:57:38] three seconds of the guy missed the chopping of the arm at the buzzer I think she all made it

[00:57:43] that well I guess what we're saying here is that you're probably getting more than

[00:57:47] a good a normal night over 90 percent correct I would say that when we blow the whistle

[00:57:53] we are credited with a correct call in the 90s in the 90 percentile you know it could be high

[00:57:59] night where we get dinged up with errors is no-call incorrect meaning we missed travel or we deemed

[00:58:06] a contact incidental that was illegal that's where we get dinged up with errors in our business

[00:58:12] but when we blow the whistle we're usually pretty good yeah when we put air in the whistle we

[00:58:16] saw it we processed it made decisions and that's when you do that we take it slow on the ball

[00:58:21] you're going to be successful as an NVR for it in prepping for this I found out I don't know if

[00:58:26] there's an accurate I think it's pretty close you run between one four miles a game which to me

[00:58:32] it's pretty staggering I'm a slimmer not a runner I can't imagine doing that time and time again

[00:58:37] so keeping in shape the question that Steve just posed I think is important because that's

[00:58:41] staggering to me we're winding down we've just got a few questions left this one is mine

[00:58:49] and then we've got two from people on our team we wanted to know is there any merit to the superstar

[00:58:56] no-call this is again something fans want to ask someone to know rookies it seems like they don't

[00:59:02] get the calls superstars get the call is there any merit to that or is that just us seeing what we

[00:59:06] want to see as fans I think it's just not understanding what's going on a rookie doesn't

[00:59:11] get called because a rookie doesn't know how to get calls meaning he doesn't know how to

[00:59:15] cover my as a defender like Michael Jordan did he doesn't know how to compromise the defender like

[00:59:19] James Harden did and or that sort of thing so they are learning the game just like an NVR

[00:59:25] referee comes in their first year they're not going to call up play from 45 feet away as often

[00:59:29] as maybe a 31 year referee like myself because they don't have that comfort level so a lot of

[00:59:35] you know and the other thing is when people come in they're like I'll hear from the rookies

[00:59:40] this year I know I'm not going to get that call and I have to let them know if you got

[00:59:44] fouled you're getting the call because I'm not taking an error because you're a rookie I want to

[00:59:48] get an A plus on my text every night and so that makes no sense at all that you're not going to get

[00:59:54] that call and it bothers me that some coach somewhere during their training has told me told

[00:59:58] them you're not going to get that call that's just not true and probably their veteran guy

[01:00:03] and escalated themselves is also telling them but here's what I would say about the stars

[01:00:09] that the it's funny that you have so many stars and if you talk to Shaquille one of our greatest

[01:00:16] players of all time he talked about how much he got fouled during his career right but wait a

[01:00:21] second he was a star player why is he not if you talk to pretty much any star they will tell you

[01:00:26] they did not get the calls they deserve it's just that's the nature of the game so who's right

[01:00:31] here either they are getting the calls or not so I always say everybody's getting fouled

[01:00:35] but nobody's fouled out here because the way it is so I think that Michael who I adore because of

[01:00:42] his graciousness and everything he did for basketball I think with the Jordan rules I think that's when

[01:00:49] that came to be where the public went oh my gosh even Michael Jordan says he gets favorite

[01:00:53] book calls and I think that's where this came from I think if you asked who stars today

[01:00:58] they would tell you I get I'm not by fair share in fact I can tell you for a fact

[01:01:01] that they that's what they tell me yeah I just don't buy that but really for me the rookie thing

[01:01:07] is easy they just they're learning the game their first year league they're not going to know

[01:01:12] sometimes you'll see a guy pump a guy and the defender will jump out of space and you go

[01:01:15] oh here it comes and then he doesn't get the foul because he didn't do what he's supposed to do

[01:01:20] and you go oh you had him didn't you work on that project you had him you had him out of

[01:01:24] his face and you could have just jumped towards the rim a little bit you would have got the

[01:01:27] foul but they don't know this is their third game so that's interesting has that happened to you

[01:01:32] where you've ever pulled a rookie aside and go dude next time do that then you get the call

[01:01:39] if the player asked me about a play and maybe there was a marginal contact or he didn't get

[01:01:45] a call because of for some reason I can explain to him why but I'm not going to go up to a

[01:01:49] player say here's what you want to do so you get that out on so-and-so over there because

[01:01:52] I don't think I'm not a coach in the NBA although I'd be at my end of my career I think I'd love to be

[01:01:58] like a referee consultant if I can't find a job in management at the NBA

[01:02:01] just because I think love to stay connected to the game so we'll say yeah nice we had two

[01:02:06] questions left these are from our team members here Josh Owens asked and I think you answered

[01:02:11] this but let's ask it anyway who is the hardest player to officiate I'm not going to get into

[01:02:16] current players but I will say back in the day yeah we don't have as much post play as we

[01:02:22] we used to have in the 90s and so when Shaquille and Yao were in the league when Carl Malone

[01:02:27] were in the league those guys in the post that were like bang them, understanding back then what

[01:02:31] the guidelines were and where the line was really difficult for me I think our staff in general

[01:02:36] and if you were to ask Shaquille I think he would agree that he was the hardest player

[01:02:40] to referee because he was so strong he could blow through what would normally be deemed

[01:02:44] illegal contact and make it look marginal because he was so strong so fast so agile

[01:02:48] and power dunk and run down the floor and for the most part Shaquille just played

[01:02:54] some nights he get frustrated because he was getting beat up but I think Shaquille and Yao were

[01:02:58] two players that as a young referee I struggled with because there was so little post play

[01:03:04] there's not post play like that maybe back in the early days of bobbling here and and cream

[01:03:09] and all those guys that might be the deal or will but by the time the 90s came around that

[01:03:15] that was the toughest thing and then it disappeared we don't have that back to the basket smashed

[01:03:18] mouth basketball anymore which is like I said it was hard to officiate

[01:03:23] understanding did Shaquille kill that guy or did he flop that's hard and when bodies are

[01:03:27] smashing like that so I would say that in my career Shaquille was tough and and Yao for

[01:03:33] whatever reason was tough too yeah I wouldn't know scheme so Yao was just so big and

[01:03:37] we had the restrictor had come in and Yao was like around the restrictor all the time

[01:03:42] and people were just running at him and so we have you have to jump to get out of the restrictor

[01:03:46] and try and block the shot and so Yao would just jump without walking the shot and it was

[01:03:49] still a foul and just silly stuff like that so I really shackled it in a different in a class

[01:03:54] by right sports difficulty to referee I just put that out there because if you put the two of them

[01:03:58] in the same game together that was not fun right got it well we've been last question here

[01:04:05] Isaac Edelman a good friend of our sights he asked and he's interested to know if you're

[01:04:10] ever able to enjoy a game and he gave this example right if you're in a game or he goes for

[01:04:16] he just can you stand there and just be in awe of that or does the game out allow you to do that

[01:04:22] there's moments there are like little moments where you see a play a dunk or three or a half

[01:04:28] court shot whatever it is where you go wow that was did you see that I think

[01:04:31] Payton Prichard did something in the in a playoff game this year I just went oh my gosh that was

[01:04:35] ridiculous but really it's more about reflection after the game you're focused on the game

[01:04:39] and you know that Curry's having a night or you know that Jason James had a night or you know

[01:04:42] Shaq's having a night whoever Kobe and you might look at the board at the end and go oh my god

[01:04:46] it's 48 or whatever but you don't necessarily get into the wow factor until after the game

[01:04:52] so recently I had a game seven with Curry he goes for 50 and I got back to locker room and I

[01:04:58] realized whatever he had had a hell of a night but I didn't realize he broke the record for games

[01:05:02] Prince of All Time and then a week later or two weeks later I work at game seven in Boston

[01:05:06] and Tatum breaks that record by one point and again during that game I knew he's having a good

[01:05:10] game but I didn't know that he was he was breaking what I just saw two weeks ago and

[01:05:15] you get a chance when you're watching the highlights or you're watching your video after

[01:05:17] games reflect upon the history that you got to see or be a part of and that's cool and

[01:05:22] then when you see highlights from like some games I don't even remember it I'll see

[01:05:24] Plastic Sports or something like that where they'll be doing a special on Mike Green like

[01:05:28] they did a thing on bang and you see yourself in the background of a game at golden at the

[01:05:32] Oakland City where Curry's just launching threes and I remember distinctively one of the bangs

[01:05:38] that Mike Green does Curry pulls up from 38 feet and he has no reason to do that there's 21 on

[01:05:43] the shock so I'm just plenty on the game clock but he pulls up from 38 feet and just

[01:05:47] shoots it like layup and I remember thinking yeah that's probably a good decision that's

[01:05:51] 38 footer and he's nothing but net and Mike Green does the bang and so they show that

[01:05:56] after the game then maybe a week ago and I'm watching that thing on tv and I'm like

[01:05:59] I was a part of that history of at least I was there I wasn't a part of it but I got to watch that

[01:06:03] and so you get that's where you get the all or like when Kobe passed and I did this on purpose

[01:06:09] in game seven Joey had told me when this game's over we got to run get off the court because

[01:06:15] they're going to be bringing fans are going to be running the court it's going to bring

[01:06:17] and stuff to for the trophy presentation security not great but get the hell off the court

[01:06:21] Kobe was running down to the south end of the arena and I saw him running and the

[01:06:26] horn's about to expire and I ran up behind them knowing there's probably all these historical

[01:06:30] pictures and so I ran up behind him and sure enough there's a t-shirt and Kobe going like this

[01:06:36] and they've won and I'm in the background of that and this guy in Salgueiro my daughter's

[01:06:41] playing a basketball tournament is asking me if I would know Kobe this is years ago my daughter

[01:06:45] five nights it's 14 years ago 15 years ago and I said yeah I think I know I think I'm on that shirt

[01:06:50] dude and I look and then sure enough a cat picture with me in the back and part of this

[01:06:54] historical moment not so much for the Lakers but for the bass for the NBA and that that's me

[01:06:59] is cool and then when Kobe passed I remember being on the plane the girl next to me is

[01:07:03] crying and I'm like what and then I pull that picture up and I'm like that's pretty cool

[01:07:07] I'd be a part of that so to answer your question those are the moments where you go wow this

[01:07:13] is historical this is really cool to be a part of and it's not about it's not about me it's about the

[01:07:19] game it's about just being a part of this greatness and being near these great athletes and

[01:07:23] everything like that but during the game it's you're locked and loaded and especially in game seven

[01:07:28] I think I've done like 20 now and you're just you're not you can't have you don't have a moment

[01:07:32] to do that even on October 13th if somebody goes for 64 you know it which you don't know you

[01:07:41] keep me a wire what they're up 40 why is he in the game and so you look up and you go oh he's got

[01:07:46] it's got 59 they're trying to get him 60 sorry stuff like that yeah wow that's the fun part of the job

[01:07:54] and honestly to me it all sounds fun I know it's not I'm not born anywhere so I still love it

[01:07:59] I still love it there you go I still love proficient the negative stuff you it's getting

[01:08:04] I think my skin getting thick now but it still stings every once in a while when you've had

[01:08:08] pretty successful career and you still get judged on one play or you get judged on something a writer

[01:08:14] tweeted and then I've had things with on social media where they're talking about something I messed

[01:08:20] up in Denver and there's this one problem I was in Cleveland right yeah like come on man

[01:08:26] I can't win right yeah yeah you are all referees right yeah because we know the name right Scott

[01:08:34] Foster got it wrong and you weren't even in that game it's yeah I made a uh I told my daughter we were

[01:08:39] at having drinks and I said I'll bet that she was giving me some trash about something I said I'll

[01:08:46] bet you somebody said something nasty you have me in the last minute on Twitter now this is July

[01:08:49] or August and she's out of your mind not so good let's go for it so we pulled it up in

[01:08:54] nine seconds ago somebody written me because it's something happened in the U.S. Greek France game

[01:08:59] and I'm like so see oh it's me Tony brothers Zach's Harvard we're the face of the NBA staff

[01:09:07] right now and before I was there Steve Javi and Joe Crawford were and before them Earl strawman

[01:09:12] Shayla Donnell were and when I'm gone there'll be somebody else new for them to beat up on

[01:09:16] and that'll be their job to take on that that that role so it's an honor magic honor right

[01:09:23] now so yeah this stuff love it Steve unless you've got any other

[01:09:28] fun this is wonderful I'm all out we actually checked every box asked every question I learned a ton

[01:09:35] this was absolutely incredible so much fun it's Scott let me tell you man when it's time to

[01:09:40] to wrap up the career you definitely got a spot here we pay zero and well at any point

[01:09:48] yeah they're good Steve be good to me at the next to the game in any way I can yeah anytime I can

[01:09:53] come back and talk fast well to you guys I'm happy to do and I'm sure we'll have a lot more stories

[01:09:56] after a retire so it's all good thanks Scott all right Steve Jose thanks see you guys have a great

[01:10:03] start I hope you all enjoyed our discussion with NBA referee Scott Foster enjoy the

[01:10:08] balance of your time off I know it's about time to get back to work but please subscribe do all

[01:10:13] that stuff it means the world to us and join us next week on 13 rolls NBA random thoughts over time

[01:10:19] we'll talk next week thanks again Scott Steve we'll talk to you next week take care guys see you now