13 Rules: NBA Random Thoughts OVERTIME - Tom Henderson Interview

[00:00:00] Alright, it's time to talk basketball. I'm Jose Solviati, editor at thepeachbasket.net.

[00:00:04] He's Steve Prisciello, longtime educator, vice principal, high school coach and athletic director.

[00:00:08] And this is the 13 Rules Random NBA Thoughts OVERTIME podcast.

[00:00:13] During the NBA offseason, Steve and I have been discussing NBA stars from the 60s and 70s

[00:00:17] by talking about them with someone who watched them play. That being Steve,

[00:00:21] to date we've discussed some of the greatest in NBA history, including Will Chamberlain,

[00:00:25] Sam Jones, Rick Berry, Pistol Pete Marovitch, long, long list.

[00:00:29] But today we're doing something a little different. We are excited to welcome an NBA champion,

[00:00:35] someone who got to the pinnacle of the sport to the 13 Rules NBA Random Thoughts podcast.

[00:00:41] Tom Henderson is with us. He was drafted seventh overall in the 1974 draft,

[00:00:45] enjoyed a nine-year NBA career, playing for the Atlanta Hawks, Washington Bullets and Houston Rockets.

[00:00:52] He reached the NBA finals three times and won it all in 1978 as a member of the Rockets.

[00:00:58] Before his NBA career, he represented the USA in the Munich Olympics in 1972.

[00:01:03] And if you know anything about history, the Munich Olympics for the NBA team,

[00:01:08] pardon me, for the basketball team was unique. And that Olympics was unique.

[00:01:13] So excited to talk about that, to talk about the NBA and to talk about his journey.

[00:01:18] It is an honor to welcome to 13 Rules NBA Random Thoughts NBA champion, Tom Henderson.

[00:01:25] Mr. Henderson, thank you for joining us. We're grateful to have you here today.

[00:01:29] My pleasure. My pleasure.

[00:01:31] Outstanding. Let's start with your journey, right? What it took to get you to the NBA

[00:01:37] when you realized you had the skills and the passion necessary to make it to the NBA.

[00:01:42] What got you there?

[00:01:43] I started playing when I was about 13. And it's a funny story.

[00:01:47] I tried out for this. I went to the night center.

[00:01:50] We had a night center Monday, Wednesday, Friday until at night.

[00:01:53] And I was playing with the big guys, I was 13 and I was playing.

[00:01:56] I didn't know what I was doing, but we won. We won.

[00:01:59] So the next game they chunked me. They got me off the team and replaced me.

[00:02:03] Okay? So I didn't, I'm 13. The big guys replaced me.

[00:02:08] I said, okay. So I worked all summer. Okay?

[00:02:11] That was a spark. I worked all summer and realized this ain't going to happen again.

[00:02:16] Okay? So next summer, the next year we started playing at the night center.

[00:02:20] So they say everybody picked me first because I was working on my game.

[00:02:25] So that was my spark. When I graduated from junior high school,

[00:02:28] I went to trade school, which is Bronx location.

[00:02:33] And then we came out for these months.

[00:02:35] So I went there for six months.

[00:02:38] But the first month, me and my teacher, we didn't get along.

[00:02:40] So I had three periods of architectural drafting and I didn't realize it was that damn hard.

[00:02:45] So he was waiting to get along.

[00:02:48] So I said, okay. So in New York, my mom gave me a dollar to go to lunch for the day.

[00:02:56] And I would take the train down the 42nd Street and go to the movies.

[00:03:01] And the movies in 42nd Street, it started at 5 cents.

[00:03:04] And by the end of the day goes up whatever the maximum is.

[00:03:07] But I went to the movies for 40 days.

[00:03:11] Okay? I'm just letting them throw me out.

[00:03:13] I want to move for these days.

[00:03:14] So in New York, your brain doesn't work that well.

[00:03:16] I'm thinking, I'm like, wow, they're going to kick me out one night.

[00:03:19] So I come home one day about 2.30 every day like I call it.

[00:03:22] So I come home one day and my mom is about 6C275.

[00:03:26] It real hard.

[00:03:27] So she says, would you go every day?

[00:03:30] The trueness that came that day, I didn't know.

[00:03:32] So she said, the voice changes.

[00:03:35] I said, would you go every day to the movies?

[00:03:38] So the next day she took me to school and put me back in.

[00:03:42] And then I went to school for the next six months.

[00:03:44] And in the midway, I got one to Clinton to my school graduate from.

[00:03:49] And what happened was she said they're not accepting about it.

[00:03:52] But if you go up there, they'll accept you.

[00:03:53] So I went up there to accept me.

[00:03:55] I was on late session going in at 5 at 12 and getting out at 5, 530.

[00:03:59] And the winter time in New York, 5.30 is dark.

[00:04:02] And my school sat on a hill like a castle.

[00:04:05] I'm like, oh, I can't do this.

[00:04:06] It's not going to work.

[00:04:07] So also my work hard.

[00:04:09] Oh, I worked hard.

[00:04:10] I worked hard.

[00:04:11] So the next year I tried out.

[00:04:13] I was on late session and I tried out when we tried out.

[00:04:16] I killed everybody.

[00:04:17] They put everybody on the varsity army and I killed them all.

[00:04:20] So they got me from late session and going in 7.30

[00:04:24] getting out 2.30 to go to practice.

[00:04:25] So that was my journey.

[00:04:26] So my 10th year, we won.

[00:04:30] We went to the semifinals and we lost in the finals of the

[00:04:33] 10th year, but I made all city.

[00:04:35] I went from there and I went to San Jacinto for two years

[00:04:38] and made second team All-American in my sophomore year.

[00:04:42] I had 24, 8 and 8 though.

[00:04:44] And I had about eight or nine games where I just had five

[00:04:48] offensive fouls.

[00:04:49] I'd run people over.

[00:04:50] I was running them over.

[00:04:51] So my next year, I did better.

[00:04:53] I would go around them and I'd have 22, 8 and 8.

[00:04:56] So I could score.

[00:04:58] So I went to visit some schools and whatnot and I liked the

[00:05:01] white and I almost went to Marquette, but I went to Marquette

[00:05:06] and I like how I'm a quiet and but it was cold up there.

[00:05:08] I talked to Al and Al had his son, Ali coming.

[00:05:11] I said, Al, this ain't gonna work.

[00:05:13] I said, because me, you and Ali ain't gonna make it

[00:05:16] because Ali is going to be mine every day.

[00:05:18] Okay?

[00:05:19] I'm gonna own him.

[00:05:20] So rather than you sleep on the couch for the rest

[00:05:22] of your life, I get that.

[00:05:24] You got to play your son.

[00:05:25] I understand that.

[00:05:26] So I got to go somewhere else.

[00:05:27] I went to visit the Tarkanian in Haiku, out of Haiku from

[00:05:31] Clinton for a trip I've been went across the coast and he

[00:05:35] offered me, he showed me so much money and offered me a

[00:05:38] couple of days or two houses and for my wife, my girlfriend

[00:05:41] which is my wife's now but and her mother.

[00:05:44] I was about 150 a piece and he showed me some of the

[00:05:46] scare.

[00:05:47] It scared the hell out of me.

[00:05:48] Okay?

[00:05:49] I'm 18.

[00:05:49] I don't know what that is.

[00:05:50] I know something's wrong.

[00:05:51] So I said, no, I can't go.

[00:05:52] I want to buy it.

[00:05:54] I got to ask about that.

[00:05:56] If you don't mind, this fascinates me obviously that

[00:05:58] there's always been a lot of talk about Tarkanian and

[00:06:01] think growing up as I was growing up and learning

[00:06:04] to love the game.

[00:06:05] He was at UNLV respected coach, right?

[00:06:08] Yes.

[00:06:09] Great teams.

[00:06:10] It was always that, you know, that link back right

[00:06:13] to money into the table and stuff.

[00:06:15] So yeah, oh my God.

[00:06:16] Look, then he went to Vegas.

[00:06:19] I said, oh my God in Vegas where they personally

[00:06:22] right?

[00:06:23] Okay.

[00:06:24] Are you kidding me?

[00:06:26] In Vegas?

[00:06:27] Okay.

[00:06:27] Talk to them at Long Beach State.

[00:06:30] They had George trap, Ed Rallif and John Q trap and

[00:06:33] Nate Stevens.

[00:06:35] All they needed was a guard and they could have

[00:06:37] we would have killed UCLA about a window.

[00:06:39] We're the kill UCLA because they didn't have a guard,

[00:06:42] but they can match up everywhere else with them.

[00:06:44] Okay.

[00:06:45] And that's what I said.

[00:06:46] No, something's wrong here.

[00:06:48] I said, I can't do that because I'm not going to

[00:06:50] do it for the last two or four years.

[00:06:52] Okay.

[00:06:52] They're going to put more preparation because that's

[00:06:55] incredibly unique, right?

[00:06:57] If I'm 18 and someone hands me that kind of money,

[00:06:59] I'm taking it.

[00:07:00] I know I would have taken it.

[00:07:01] Why didn't you look?

[00:07:03] We've been broke on my life, but I'm like something's

[00:07:06] wrong here.

[00:07:07] Okay.

[00:07:07] Something's wrong here.

[00:07:08] This is a little bit too much.

[00:07:10] That's this is not real realistic.

[00:07:12] So I'm like, okay, I don't know we can do this.

[00:07:16] So I said, no, I couldn't.

[00:07:18] So then I went to the San Jac and I enjoyed that because

[00:07:21] it was the day I had a good coach.

[00:07:23] He was he let me play.

[00:07:25] Didn't couldn't not much about X's and O's, but he let me

[00:07:29] play and then I worked on my game when I was there.

[00:07:32] I worked on before practice and after practice.

[00:07:35] Go back now in there.

[00:07:37] The Olympics fit in.

[00:07:38] Talk to us about the Olympics, the trial, the actual

[00:07:42] making and Munich.

[00:07:43] When all that stuff went down.

[00:07:46] Okay.

[00:07:47] The trial to like the trials is in Colorado Springs.

[00:07:51] Okay.

[00:07:52] And seven days, two weeks for seven days and twice a day.

[00:07:57] And then of the second week you play one game a day.

[00:08:01] Okay.

[00:08:02] But you're on the Air Force time, Air Force, the military

[00:08:04] time.

[00:08:05] So you eat in the morning lunch and then you go

[00:08:08] evening.

[00:08:08] It was a child and we played hard.

[00:08:10] I played forward pretty much in the camp.

[00:08:13] I played forward.

[00:08:14] Okay.

[00:08:15] I played forward because I had to guard up.

[00:08:16] I had to guard those guys.

[00:08:20] I had to guard those guys and then Tommy Miller, he

[00:08:22] didn't get no rebound.

[00:08:22] I'm getting more rebounds in him.

[00:08:24] He don't want to rebound.

[00:08:25] He wants to shoot three runners.

[00:08:26] Okay.

[00:08:26] We didn't get along too well.

[00:08:28] We were going to whoop him.

[00:08:30] So what happened was when we play and see the

[00:08:32] thing about our team was a unique team.

[00:08:35] We had 11 out of 12 guys on first round, the

[00:08:37] AD8 NBA.

[00:08:38] Okay.

[00:08:39] At that time, 11 out of 12, the only guy they did

[00:08:41] wasn't the first round pick was Kenny Davis.

[00:08:44] They are you.

[00:08:45] Okay.

[00:08:45] So we had a whip.

[00:08:46] We just, but nobody averaged in double figures.

[00:08:49] Me, Dry Jones and Mike Bannum all averaged nine

[00:08:51] points again.

[00:08:53] We had Doug Collins who was having 32.

[00:08:56] Everybody was having 20 something, but he

[00:08:58] wouldn't let us go.

[00:09:00] You had deers, but you hold them.

[00:09:02] You confine in them.

[00:09:03] You let them let them go.

[00:09:05] You got to let deers run.

[00:09:06] You can't let them go.

[00:09:08] We look, we played Russia.

[00:09:09] We won 15-51.

[00:09:10] We should have ran them back to Russia.

[00:09:13] Okay.

[00:09:13] But the thing about us as American basketball players,

[00:09:16] whistle arrogant, I never saw them Russians play

[00:09:18] until that night.

[00:09:20] Okay.

[00:09:21] And they've been playing in three Olympics.

[00:09:23] That's 12 years they've been playing together.

[00:09:25] AU all the time.

[00:09:26] Those are grown men.

[00:09:28] Okay.

[00:09:29] We played, we didn't scout him at all.

[00:09:32] And if you scout somebody, you at least know how

[00:09:34] they played a little bit.

[00:09:35] Okay.

[00:09:36] I'm like, wow, we, but our arrogance.

[00:09:38] Okay.

[00:09:39] And we played Cuba.

[00:09:40] We beat them.

[00:09:41] We stopped them from breaking and Cuban,

[00:09:43] Cubans were the best town.

[00:09:45] They had the most athleticism.

[00:09:47] They wouldn't as good as we were,

[00:09:49] but they had the most athleticism.

[00:09:51] They was athlete.

[00:09:52] They jumped like a zel.

[00:09:53] But we shut them down when we stopped them

[00:09:55] from running.

[00:09:56] So they was in trouble.

[00:09:57] And then our style of play was a

[00:10:01] running ball around, perhaps around for 25 seconds

[00:10:03] just 30 second clock.

[00:10:05] That shot you're trying to get the first five seconds

[00:10:07] going to be different in the last five seconds.

[00:10:10] Okay.

[00:10:11] The last five seconds, they're going to tighten the deep

[00:10:12] things up.

[00:10:13] So you're in trouble.

[00:10:13] So you waiting passing around the whole time.

[00:10:16] We passed it six times and like, come on,

[00:10:18] give me a break.

[00:10:18] So when we got down with the rush and I had to

[00:10:21] talk to all my, Hey, we got to go.

[00:10:23] We got to go.

[00:10:23] So that's when we started attacking and we had

[00:10:26] scores.

[00:10:27] We had always had scores and then we need to

[00:10:30] get my spot when I was in San Francisco,

[00:10:32] we practiced for three days and Glory Road,

[00:10:35] Don Haskins, he called me so many in there.

[00:10:38] So I thought that was my middle name in there.

[00:10:39] Okay.

[00:10:40] So he wore me out.

[00:10:42] Okay.

[00:10:42] So I don't play well when you're you cut to me like

[00:10:44] that.

[00:10:45] I used to beat I away the college and they

[00:10:48] were close.

[00:10:49] They was like, it's just, it was close.

[00:10:52] It was tight.

[00:10:53] Okay.

[00:10:53] I beat them twice a day when I got to Hawaii.

[00:10:55] Okay.

[00:10:56] I said, I got to beat them up because I

[00:10:59] can't let this guy keep cutting me because

[00:11:00] I can't play that doesn't, I can't do

[00:11:02] that.

[00:11:02] You don't register.

[00:11:04] I had another coach.

[00:11:05] He'll be bound was like that.

[00:11:06] He called time out and take a bow to the

[00:11:08] foul line and custom you motherfucker, you

[00:11:10] did this, you that.

[00:11:11] I'm like, what?

[00:11:13] I'm like, that's the night before I got

[00:11:14] traded from Philly to Washington.

[00:11:18] He called time out and call off the

[00:11:20] foul line.

[00:11:20] He calls so many MFs.

[00:11:22] I'm like, wow.

[00:11:24] So next, let me explain next for a

[00:11:25] place up through the ball to the

[00:11:27] four archers.

[00:11:27] And then last thing he did was I went

[00:11:30] to a layup and threw the ball up the

[00:11:31] backboard and went to half court.

[00:11:34] So I think anybody here that okay,

[00:11:36] so I got in and the teams you play

[00:11:39] well against that's who you get traded to.

[00:11:41] I had to kill Kevin Porter.

[00:11:43] That's a light them up.

[00:11:44] Tom, how about the two things before

[00:11:47] we move to the pros?

[00:11:48] Tell us about the championship game

[00:11:51] against Russia.

[00:11:52] Were you on the court at the end?

[00:11:54] Yeah, they did do what happened was

[00:11:55] we called time out.

[00:11:58] They threw the ball in and then

[00:11:59] they took it out again.

[00:12:02] They threw the ball in again.

[00:12:04] So they say that was in the first game.

[00:12:06] So some some some Jones come out to

[00:12:08] the stands, okay, and told them that

[00:12:11] the Russians should be awarded three

[00:12:12] seconds more.

[00:12:13] Why?

[00:12:14] You have no authority.

[00:12:15] Okay, but you did that.

[00:12:17] He can get that we should have got

[00:12:19] off the court.

[00:12:19] I said if we leave out the court

[00:12:21] they're gonna forward us.

[00:12:22] He said we should have did that.

[00:12:24] So we didn't and we had a 50 page

[00:12:26] protest.

[00:12:27] Okay, but there was community

[00:12:29] committees of five committees.

[00:12:31] There's three communists to non

[00:12:32] communist.

[00:12:33] The vote can be three to two.

[00:12:35] Okay, we can't win.

[00:12:36] And then if you notice the

[00:12:37] whole Olympics was anti US

[00:12:39] and that was a big beginner

[00:12:41] terrorism.

[00:12:42] Okay.

[00:12:44] They did the Arab

[00:12:45] look you ever watch Hogan

[00:12:48] heroes.

[00:12:49] Yeah.

[00:12:50] Okay, Hogan heroes.

[00:12:52] The Germans make great machines.

[00:12:54] They can't know common sense.

[00:12:55] Okay, they got a 30 foot high

[00:12:57] fence around the village.

[00:12:59] Okay, there's people climbing

[00:13:00] over the fence coming in.

[00:13:01] You got to investigate that.

[00:13:03] You don't let that just go.

[00:13:04] Okay, so you need two forms of

[00:13:06] ID to get in the village.

[00:13:08] Once you get in the village to

[00:13:09] get to your delegation, you

[00:13:11] get your dorm, you go and you

[00:13:13] deal with your people.

[00:13:14] Okay, so to get in the village

[00:13:16] you had four me ID if they

[00:13:17] come in the fence then

[00:13:18] something's wrong.

[00:13:20] Okay, so amazing.

[00:13:22] So they climbed in and they

[00:13:24] held the average.

[00:13:25] They had to have the

[00:13:26] realings captive for a couple

[00:13:28] of days and then they decided

[00:13:29] to take them there.

[00:13:30] So they take the international

[00:13:31] airfield.

[00:13:32] They took them to the military

[00:13:33] airfield and then surrounded

[00:13:35] the helicopters.

[00:13:36] Okay, now there's six snipers.

[00:13:40] No, there's eight snipers.

[00:13:41] No, there's eight terrorists.

[00:13:44] There's only six snipers.

[00:13:47] How do you have two less

[00:13:48] snipers?

[00:13:49] Okay, if you're trying to

[00:13:51] get the boy to get his right,

[00:13:53] you can't have less snipers

[00:13:56] than you got.

[00:13:59] Terrorists?

[00:13:59] Come on.

[00:14:00] How do you defend them?

[00:14:01] It just doesn't make no sense.

[00:14:03] So that was the beginning of

[00:14:04] terrorism and they wanted to

[00:14:07] cancel the games.

[00:14:08] We said, no, we didn't want

[00:14:09] to cancel the game.

[00:14:10] We wanted to go and it was

[00:14:11] like the next dorm over to

[00:14:13] a cafeteria.

[00:14:14] There's a three story cafeteria

[00:14:16] that we went to every day.

[00:14:17] So we had to go past by there.

[00:14:19] It was just deep from New York.

[00:14:21] We saw kind of stuff going on,

[00:14:23] but we wouldn't enter that.

[00:14:25] We just say we're 20 years old.

[00:14:27] We don't know nobody like that.

[00:14:29] We didn't learn about that.

[00:14:31] That's how I suppose I pay great.

[00:14:34] I got to ask you about the game

[00:14:37] because so much it's fascinating

[00:14:39] what went on and scary right

[00:14:41] at that Olympics.

[00:14:42] But I saw a great quote from

[00:14:44] you about the way the game

[00:14:46] ended specifically.

[00:14:47] You said the game ended and we won.

[00:14:49] Then it ended again and we won again.

[00:14:52] And then obviously there was a third

[00:14:54] time and you just what if we asked

[00:14:56] him to go three months ago.

[00:14:58] And then the thing when they

[00:15:00] when we were with the we had

[00:15:02] Jim Fawkes who's 60 Kevin Joyce

[00:15:05] and 63 and they're on the back

[00:15:07] line watching a bellows

[00:15:09] and he just elbow both of them.

[00:15:11] They went flying and then

[00:15:12] they told Tom Macmillan who

[00:15:14] was on the ball now Tom

[00:15:16] Burtz on the 75.

[00:15:17] He should have been back there.

[00:15:19] But then they told Tom Macmillan

[00:15:22] to take a step back so the guy can

[00:15:24] throw the ball so he can't

[00:15:25] contest the ball.

[00:15:27] I'm like oh this is just too much.

[00:15:28] We're just sitting there and I'm

[00:15:29] like wow this is just too much.

[00:15:32] And you know what the funny

[00:15:33] thing about it when the game

[00:15:34] was over the first time everybody

[00:15:37] rushed on the court.

[00:15:39] Now these silvernears

[00:15:40] people they rushed

[00:15:42] on the court. A guy is

[00:15:44] trying to take my jersey up over

[00:15:46] my head and I turned

[00:15:48] and about to swing him and he took

[00:15:50] off running. I'm like this guy's

[00:15:52] trying to take my jersey. He's

[00:15:54] trying to undress me. Okay.

[00:15:56] And at the time I think

[00:15:58] about Iber got pickpocket,

[00:16:00] about three or four boosters got pickpocket.

[00:16:02] That's what they do.

[00:16:03] About eight people got pickpocket.

[00:16:05] Okay doing this

[00:16:08] celebration.

[00:16:09] Okay so

[00:16:10] this is going on.

[00:16:13] It was amazing.

[00:16:14] It was a life experience. My life,

[00:16:16] that night after the game I don't drink beer.

[00:16:19] I don't drink at all. I drank a beer

[00:16:21] and had to crawl to my bed okay

[00:16:23] because they had that lager and that big thing

[00:16:25] that said big leader.

[00:16:27] I never drank it so I'm like wow

[00:16:29] I'm 20 I had to have a beer.

[00:16:31] If something's going to drive you to drink

[00:16:33] I think that experience is going to

[00:16:35] drive anybody to drink.

[00:16:36] It was amazing. He was there for me.

[00:16:38] I'm 20. That's all that is new.

[00:16:41] I think about it now. It's a little

[00:16:42] understand a little bit more but

[00:16:44] if this was a lot to take in when I went

[00:16:46] there so then we had a thing when

[00:16:48] the Russian came and we played I think

[00:16:50] six games to the states the following

[00:16:52] year and I think we beat them four

[00:16:54] two or something like that but

[00:16:56] I was still pissed because then

[00:16:58] when we were in the wisdom locker room

[00:17:00] talking about the silver medal to go out

[00:17:03] there to accept the silver medal we said

[00:17:04] no we're not doing it. The only guy

[00:17:07] that was thinking about it would want to

[00:17:08] do it with Tom McMillan but we'd have

[00:17:10] whipped him.

[00:17:13] I was going to ask you about

[00:17:14] that right because Doug Collins is famously

[00:17:16] famously said he doesn't want it

[00:17:18] the team doesn't want it so you guys did

[00:17:20] collectively talk and say you don't want

[00:17:22] that silver medal. Yeah, you can't accept

[00:17:24] it if you get 12 signatures

[00:17:26] okay 12 guys have to do

[00:17:28] all or nothing but I said you guys

[00:17:31] I guess you guys ain't gonna get it because

[00:17:33] Collins got in his will not to take the

[00:17:35] damn silver medal. I just felt we got

[00:17:37] cheated and I'm like nope I can't do it

[00:17:39] but I just can't do it so

[00:17:40] I got my kids instructed if I die

[00:17:42] do not accept those silver medals

[00:17:44] we wanted to go medals. It was

[00:17:47] serious. It's just life experiences

[00:17:49] when you play with different

[00:17:51] guys so it was good and then

[00:17:53] I went to Hawaii and I was fine

[00:17:55] it was just peaceful

[00:17:57] it was just a peaceful thing.

[00:17:59] Tom you mentioned Tom McMillan

[00:18:00] now he was the top recruit

[00:18:03] in that year with Maryland

[00:18:05] am I correct? Yeah.

[00:18:07] How did you feel about his

[00:18:09] game?

[00:18:11] He was a seven foot jump shooter

[00:18:14] Are you serious?

[00:18:15] I feel like let me tell you something

[00:18:17] and my officer

[00:18:18] I went to the lower class in my

[00:18:20] senior at Hawaii

[00:18:22] and they had the Hughes brothers

[00:18:25] they were 6'10 from Wisconsin

[00:18:27] both of them were 6'10 or 6'11

[00:18:29] one was inside he went to

[00:18:31] I don't know one went to

[00:18:33] New Jersey I don't know where the other one went

[00:18:35] we played the offside game

[00:18:36] and I played with the one that's a

[00:18:38] six seven foot jump shooter

[00:18:40] we was in practice and he shot a jump shot

[00:18:43] from seven from three points

[00:18:45] like one range when I told him

[00:18:47] you shoot another one and I'm going it's going to be me and you

[00:18:49] okay you're seven feet

[00:18:51] take your big ass under the goal

[00:18:53] okay we can get that any time

[00:18:55] okay we can jump out

[00:18:57] anytime and you shooting three

[00:18:59] pointers that's why I did drive me crazy

[00:19:00] I'm watching the game now and three

[00:19:02] pointers just so it's a mess up the game

[00:19:05] that's all they think about the three pointers

[00:19:07] and everybody can shoot your pointers

[00:19:08] I was going to ask this question and this is a

[00:19:10] perfect segue so thank you

[00:19:13] for the setup honestly you were in

[00:19:15] the NBA when they adopted

[00:19:16] the three-point shot I looked at your career

[00:19:19] stats you never took

[00:19:21] a single shot from three-point

[00:19:23] range I took one

[00:19:24] and we took one we'd be the

[00:19:26] Kansas City who went to the finals with

[00:19:29] 8081 with the rockets

[00:19:31] and I took one right there in the game but

[00:19:32] they didn't call it they didn't call it that took

[00:19:35] the only one I took but

[00:19:36] I can get a layup I can always

[00:19:38] get layup I can always get an

[00:19:40] in between shot is fine and I'm not a

[00:19:43] three-point shooter but look it's really

[00:19:44] funny when we were in the Houston

[00:19:46] we played with us right so we could

[00:19:48] shoot around before the game or before

[00:19:51] in practice and

[00:19:52] I would shoot him three-point this

[00:19:54] shoot three-point I used to kick his ass

[00:19:57] okay Rick Barry

[00:19:58] okay I used to kick his ass in

[00:20:00] three-point this but I never shot

[00:20:02] three-point this because I never really thought hey I can get

[00:20:04] through what I want so I was good the three-point

[00:20:07] they by now they rely on that he used

[00:20:08] to piss him off he said because I wasn't a

[00:20:10] shooter I says I always was a shooter

[00:20:13] but not to fit

[00:20:14] in the game my each

[00:20:16] team I play with I had to have a different

[00:20:18] role but I realized that I'm a

[00:20:20] point guard and I've never had another

[00:20:22] guard to bring the ball up always

[00:20:24] like to bring the ball up I never had a

[00:20:27] two guard that would bring the ball up so

[00:20:28] I could run the floor okay

[00:20:30] that's his basketball okay

[00:20:32] in the summertime we were playing the

[00:20:34] courtsman in the summer I was in

[00:20:36] the college we played the courtsman

[00:20:38] Nate Arturo tiny Arturo with coaches

[00:20:40] and we would have five guards me Ricky

[00:20:42] Sobers we just have five guards and

[00:20:44] we kill everybody because either one

[00:20:47] anybody can bring the ball up

[00:20:48] it's just basketball so it's just so

[00:20:50] different and to play with another guard

[00:20:53] to bring the ball up and most of

[00:20:54] guards are they look you to be guards

[00:20:57] forward and send it out point guards

[00:20:59] forward guard small forward big forward

[00:21:01] center there's five positions

[00:21:02] give me a break okay it's just

[00:21:05] they make it harder what it is and then

[00:21:06] the best coach I ever had was in

[00:21:09] high school John Wilde

[00:21:10] they couldn't he taught me basics

[00:21:13] okay how to play decent and be

[00:21:15] glad to play defense Doug Collins

[00:21:17] I just I used to beat him up

[00:21:19] like his stoles something so when he

[00:21:21] played with Philly and I played with

[00:21:23] Washington and one we were playing

[00:21:26] and he was lighting Kevin

[00:21:28] grieving up he had 29 the first half

[00:21:30] so I'm telling Molly and Bernie

[00:21:32] Brickson if I'm saying all

[00:21:34] first half let me guard him let me

[00:21:36] guard him they say no so

[00:21:37] after 29 the first half I

[00:21:39] said you can't do no worse

[00:21:41] so second half I beads him

[00:21:43] he scored two and

[00:21:45] four two once two free throws

[00:21:47] in the bucket I beat

[00:21:49] him up okay because you know I played

[00:21:51] him and my best defensive doctor

[00:21:53] if you ain't got the ball you ain't gonna get it

[00:21:55] okay all right I gotta call

[00:21:57] out it can score you know I gotta

[00:21:59] call out that Kevin Grievi is a fan

[00:22:01] of our show we were able to talk to him

[00:22:03] not so we're gonna we're gonna validate

[00:22:04] this with him yes Kevin's

[00:22:07] good dude Kevin good dude and then

[00:22:08] he's really because when I came

[00:22:11] when you get I got traded from

[00:22:12] for Chuck Robinson and Chuck

[00:22:15] Robinson with truck Weston Elvin

[00:22:17] that was held with front line

[00:22:18] okay so Chuck

[00:22:20] was in New York played scored about 30

[00:22:23] 25 rebounds and he went to

[00:22:25] Boston and it was Chuck

[00:22:26] Weston Elvin that's front line

[00:22:28] so then with the Boston scored about

[00:22:30] 30 about 22 rebounds

[00:22:32] and two games in a row

[00:22:34] then the next day he come home to

[00:22:36] Washington and they start

[00:22:38] Kevin Grievi no

[00:22:40] talk no nothing they start Kevin Grievi

[00:22:43] man after

[00:22:44] game Chuck they had a little

[00:22:46] office Chuck was in the office

[00:22:48] with Bernie and Dick

[00:22:50] and he cornered them up

[00:22:52] they didn't think they would get out of there

[00:22:54] alive okay Chuck was

[00:22:55] 6 8 2 45

[00:22:58] all man okay and then

[00:22:59] so Chuck cornered him and scored him

[00:23:02] in the locker and their office and

[00:23:04] I told my ships

[00:23:06] you straight before you got to your car

[00:23:08] okay they was

[00:23:09] glad to get to you out of there they

[00:23:11] would have seen and they made most of

[00:23:13] times that you read it in the paper

[00:23:15] you see it or they call it they don't even call

[00:23:17] you most time they don't call you

[00:23:19] you'll find out from somebody else's voice

[00:23:21] because most of them ain't got enough heart to tell you

[00:23:23] my thing is just let me know I can go

[00:23:25] when I got traded to watching him

[00:23:28] she rebounds

[00:23:29] she rebounds game and he says

[00:23:32] hey I need to talk to you we trained

[00:23:33] practice right so my lawyer said okay I

[00:23:35] wasn't going to wear so I said okay

[00:23:37] I'm fine he comes and she'll be

[00:23:39] got that eye that Roman eye that

[00:23:41] right eye and he said

[00:23:43] pick that ball up so

[00:23:45] for we don't know who we talking to

[00:23:47] all four of us really sound to pick that

[00:23:48] ball up because we don't know who we talked to

[00:23:50] so he walks over to me and says

[00:23:52] I need to talk to you I said okay

[00:23:54] you've been traded and I said okay

[00:23:56] I said to wear he said

[00:23:58] I'm going to watch him

[00:24:00] said how you feel I do I just want

[00:24:02] from the last place to first thank

[00:24:04] you and goodbye okay

[00:24:07] goodbye how do I feel

[00:24:08] I feel great and see when you get traded

[00:24:10] you do the 12th man so it took me

[00:24:13] about a week and a half to get to my

[00:24:14] side and but you know after that but

[00:24:16] you know watching was what not

[00:24:18] and then how I won

[00:24:20] with Washington in 78

[00:24:23] I didn't I went to the finder

[00:24:24] was using it but we lost to Boston

[00:24:26] 881 but I went to

[00:24:28] two finals I went to two

[00:24:30] finals three finals with two different

[00:24:32] teams and we went to

[00:24:34] we went with a losing record

[00:24:36] 40 and 42 but the

[00:24:38] time was right and we just

[00:24:40] peaked at the right time and then

[00:24:42] we the ball came in

[00:24:44] we got in the first game we up

[00:24:47] by eight

[00:24:48] and 10 minutes ago and I get

[00:24:50] in my fourth file so Dale Harris

[00:24:52] sits me on the bench

[00:24:53] for four minutes so we go from

[00:24:56] four from eight up

[00:24:57] to four down when I get back in

[00:24:59] so I'm pissed off so we scored

[00:25:01] two I scored two buckets we tied up but

[00:25:03] we left Boston 1-1 we should

[00:25:05] left Boston 2-0 we should have won the first game

[00:25:08] my thing is I got four files

[00:25:10] but let me file out don't let me

[00:25:11] sit on the bench I got four files

[00:25:13] let me play okay he's having

[00:25:15] a bench don't sit me that long the

[00:25:17] tempo has changed and whatnot we left

[00:25:19] ball then we won the second game

[00:25:21] and then Moses Philly had the

[00:25:23] tough Boston had a tough series of Philly

[00:25:25] a save game series where they

[00:25:27] won by one point they were tired

[00:25:29] they beat down they were sleep

[00:25:31] with the second game we won

[00:25:33] with the Boston they got Moser

[00:25:35] we got to talking he's talking about I'll take

[00:25:37] four guys from Petersburg and with Boston

[00:25:39] I said oh no don't

[00:25:41] wake them up let them sleep

[00:25:43] they don't know how to wake them up we should

[00:25:45] left Boston 2-0 in the next five games

[00:25:46] we just stole two okay we got

[00:25:49] we got a ring by winning two

[00:25:51] two out of five we could have got two

[00:25:53] but you don't wake them up they had

[00:25:55] better team yes they had better talent

[00:25:56] Max will come off the bench they had

[00:25:58] Bird, McKeil, Parish

[00:26:01] okay they had a team

[00:26:03] they had a good team

[00:26:04] that tiny and a good team I know

[00:26:07] what they had don't wake them up

[00:26:08] I'm like oh god I'm gonna take them

[00:26:10] out about the finals you can do it

[00:26:12] shut up talk nice to them guys yo he's playing

[00:26:14] blah blah blah okay that's what you do

[00:26:16] you don't pump them up and you

[00:26:18] wake them up I got a project for

[00:26:20] just a second because I know you're not

[00:26:22] Steve and I are on camera and

[00:26:24] we're excited to have you on audio but I

[00:26:26] just want to let you know the second you

[00:26:28] started you talking about waking somebody up

[00:26:30] you woke Steve up he is a Boston

[00:26:32] fan and as soon as you started talking

[00:26:34] about Boston he went off

[00:26:36] camera he got his Boston Celtics

[00:26:38] hat and he is now wearing it

[00:26:40] proudly just wanted to let you know

[00:26:42] what was happening hey look here tell

[00:26:44] him also that's the that

[00:26:46] Park A4 that's the worst floor in

[00:26:48] the country hey man okay

[00:26:49] they got about 30 dead spots and they run

[00:26:52] you right you're the dead spot they know

[00:26:53] where they are you know you bounce the ball

[00:26:55] and don't come up you know they come out

[00:26:57] to Park A4 I'm like that's the worst floor

[00:26:59] in the league okay this is not a

[00:27:00] this is not a question we had listed it

[00:27:02] to ask you but Steve and I were talking

[00:27:04] about this yesterday and talking about

[00:27:06] the Lakers and the Celtics great rivalry

[00:27:08] and about the floor and about the air

[00:27:10] conditioning not working and I made the

[00:27:12] point and I'm in LA okay

[00:27:13] but I made the point that I got to give

[00:27:15] credit to Red Arbac he knew

[00:27:18] what he was doing he was playing

[00:27:19] with the rules he did everything he could

[00:27:21] look he turned the needle on one time with

[00:27:22] Karim and by half time Karim

[00:27:26] was done and that's

[00:27:27] that red he too that's red is too much

[00:27:30] red they were too much he killed

[00:27:31] hey look he killed anybody

[00:27:34] for a win he was tough and he put

[00:27:36] people together he put down

[00:27:37] but two good teams together and then you

[00:27:39] talked about the de Gaulle I thought

[00:27:41] de Gaulle was supposed to be one of the most

[00:27:43] championships it did in his different

[00:27:45] positions the guys at de Gaulle

[00:27:47] Jordan is his position but Bill Russell

[00:27:49] was nine championships

[00:27:51] and two as a coach

[00:27:53] I think that's the goal 11 I don't know

[00:27:55] who you talking about but that got to be de Gaulle

[00:27:57] he ran out of fingers okay look let's

[00:27:59] tell you now the Olympics he was doing the

[00:28:01] commentating him and so he felt it come to me

[00:28:03] had number six he says hey

[00:28:05] you got my number I see yes

[00:28:07] he said if you don't play I'm gonna make your name

[00:28:09] a household word garbage

[00:28:11] I said oh okay that guy

[00:28:14] that inspired me I had no

[00:28:15] problem the bill was always he was a great man

[00:28:17] there was that was a great man

[00:28:19] let me ask you about the NBA

[00:28:21] right because what a great career you've had

[00:28:23] in basketball just so much from college

[00:28:26] to the Olympics and then the NBA

[00:28:28] I took some time digging

[00:28:29] into the numbers for you and

[00:28:31] you scored a career high 33 points

[00:28:33] on 13 or 19 shooting

[00:28:35] against the New Orleans jazz

[00:28:37] back in the day in New Orleans in 1975

[00:28:40] what do you remember about that

[00:28:41] game because that's a that's got to be a

[00:28:44] highlight that's an incredible

[00:28:45] we played in the afternoon and then

[00:28:47] there's a difference in playing afternoon

[00:28:49] in night games you play night games

[00:28:51] all year and then I got to watch

[00:28:53] and we started playing afternoon games

[00:28:55] so you're playing at seven at

[00:28:57] night as opposed to playing at

[00:28:59] 130 so I had to get adjusted

[00:29:01] to that but I got to watch it

[00:29:03] and those fans were like the six man

[00:29:05] because the nights we don't want to play

[00:29:07] they got you up and then playing with

[00:29:09] until that was just a treat playing

[00:29:11] with him because this is a guy

[00:29:13] I watched him in practice get the ball

[00:29:15] off the bat my third week there I watched

[00:29:17] him in practice he got the ball off

[00:29:19] the basket in the back so up the

[00:29:21] backboard and threw it in the air

[00:29:23] and threw it hit the other back for

[00:29:25] I told him I ain't no human

[00:29:27] alive so to be that strong

[00:29:29] who are you?

[00:29:31] just amazing

[00:29:32] he was amazing he would throw the ball out so hard

[00:29:34] sometimes I had to bring my hand down

[00:29:36] because I know if I catch it I might go

[00:29:38] four rolls deep so I could not

[00:29:40] but he was a good guy just a good guy

[00:29:43] and then the biggest part

[00:29:45] when I left Washington

[00:29:47] two years I've been there

[00:29:48] two and a half years because when I got there

[00:29:50] I had two years and a half years

[00:29:52] Atlanta so when I got to Washington

[00:29:54] I got there and we won in

[00:29:56] my fourth year

[00:29:57] then in 79 I went to finals again but my

[00:30:00] contract was at my first time the five year contract

[00:30:02] then my contract was up so

[00:30:04] I went in and talked to Phrygis over in the summer

[00:30:06] I don't know where I'm at I won't have to

[00:30:08] be waiting so he said

[00:30:11] maybe one year guarantee

[00:30:12] we won a championship

[00:30:14] okay we won a championship and did not have

[00:30:16] a bottle of champagne to celebrate

[00:30:18] I'm in the locker room after the game

[00:30:20] and they're pouring beer

[00:30:22] soda it all in my face with

[00:30:23] not a bottle of champagne because

[00:30:25] if you notice they've been blanked two times

[00:30:28] before that Milwaukee

[00:30:29] and Golden State 404-0

[00:30:31] we won and they didn't have a bottle

[00:30:34] of champagne when we reached the hotel

[00:30:36] they had a bottle as big as me

[00:30:38] the thrill is gone

[00:30:39] okay I didn't miss you missed that in

[00:30:41] and my thing is I grew up in New York

[00:30:43] and I grew up in the hood so

[00:30:45] if you ain't gonna have a bottle of champagne

[00:30:47] then I'm gonna stop at the first liquor store

[00:30:49] and get a bottle for me

[00:30:50] and 3-3 I'm gonna

[00:30:52] I'm gonna support myself

[00:30:54] because it was hell of a year

[00:30:56] okay and it was hell of a year

[00:30:58] so it was insulting but

[00:31:00] you know then Ferry

[00:31:02] I went in to see what he's going on

[00:31:04] he said maybe one year guarantee

[00:31:07] I said

[00:31:08] pay me for what I did

[00:31:09] I was here two and a half years we won a championship

[00:31:12] and then we lost in the finals next year

[00:31:14] but we went to two finals

[00:31:16] okay so pay me

[00:31:18] people don't insult me so I left

[00:31:20] I didn't even talk to them so maybe one year guarantee

[00:31:22] and I'm coming up for five year guarantee contract

[00:31:25] three four we was pre-releasing

[00:31:26] we were negotiating so I came to Houston

[00:31:28] and I wanted four

[00:31:30] they wanted three so I wound up getting four

[00:31:31] okay so the difference is what I wanted

[00:31:34] and they wanted was a hundred thousand

[00:31:36] so you give me six and we run with

[00:31:38] it's business nothing personal

[00:31:40] they take it personal

[00:31:41] and it ain't personal it's business

[00:31:43] you know pay me for what I did I did this

[00:31:46] and then isn't it hard

[00:31:48] I mean you were talking about being 18 right

[00:31:49] today you've got kids

[00:31:52] 1920 coming into the NBA

[00:31:53] and they're having to deal with that

[00:31:55] that's kind of so hard

[00:31:56] yes it is cause you don't know

[00:31:59] and then you know like I look at now

[00:32:01] I look at these guys they go to strip joints

[00:32:03] and all that I says

[00:32:05] we ain't going no damn strip joints for what

[00:32:07] we not going we making these

[00:32:09] we not going no strip joints

[00:32:11] we don't do that okay I listen to them

[00:32:13] and now what I'm like what are y'all doing

[00:32:16] what are y'all doing

[00:32:17] I'm like

[00:32:19] you trying to give me money way

[00:32:20] cause they sure going to take it okay

[00:32:22] so it's a little different now it's quite different

[00:32:25] I heard look her Anthony Edwards talk about

[00:32:27] back then it was nobody challenging

[00:32:29] and I'm like are you serious

[00:32:31] back then she now did you can't even touch somebody

[00:32:33] back then we had the hand

[00:32:35] checking all that and them guys

[00:32:37] man I had Jim Price and Dean Mimichu

[00:32:39] they used to pick me up and move me

[00:32:41] and after the game after night over

[00:32:43] I got five fingerprints on my side

[00:32:45] from them they been holding me

[00:32:46] and I've been getting awesome

[00:32:48] and I think we was playing LA one time

[00:32:50] Michael Kubu was guarding me

[00:32:52] and I had scuba 6'6 about

[00:32:54] 190 but he got long arms man

[00:32:57] like that's Clio and Don Chaney

[00:32:59] them are small forwards they may guard

[00:33:01] them small forwards okay but them is big guards

[00:33:03] he's guarding me and whatnot and I'm playing with you

[00:33:05] so then we playing first game

[00:33:06] and it's on TV and I'm building

[00:33:08] I bought them about four times in a row

[00:33:09] to my watchel or I say FU

[00:33:12] FU

[00:33:14] look so then Matthew to Tom

[00:33:16] come down and I said Magic

[00:33:17] I might can't whoop nobody

[00:33:19] but I can whoop him okay

[00:33:21] I will whoop him tonight okay

[00:33:24] so you ready to get him I said he ain't gonna

[00:33:26] ride me like a horse they ain't gonna call it

[00:33:28] you're not gonna ride me like a horse

[00:33:29] it's not gonna happen you're not gonna be guarding me

[00:33:32] you're 6'6 got long arms man

[00:33:34] and I'm like I'm not taking that

[00:33:36] that's not that that's how you play

[00:33:38] so I like it when they let you play

[00:33:40] I don't mind being physical I just

[00:33:42] let me play just don't call it ticket tactics

[00:33:44] just let me play and then I get down from playing

[00:33:46] on the weekends with them old men

[00:33:49] old men in my neighborhood

[00:33:50] you go play them old men they're gonna beat you up

[00:33:52] and see but the whole thing

[00:33:53] I wouldn't complain I'm just gonna figure out

[00:33:56] by next weekend I'll not to let them beat me

[00:33:59] because you can't get no layups

[00:34:00] you gotta shoot jumpsuit and you gotta pick your spots

[00:34:02] so you gotta

[00:34:03] I got a question I gotta ask you

[00:34:04] about that and you set me up again

[00:34:08] perfectly and I know Steve you wanted to ask

[00:34:10] something

[00:34:10] same thing I think

[00:34:11] okay yeah probably the same thing

[00:34:13] this was such a perfect setup

[00:34:15] I don't know if you heard but the current

[00:34:17] Los Angeles Lakers coach

[00:34:19] JJ Reddick

[00:34:20] said last year

[00:34:22] about players in your era

[00:34:24] right that they devalued

[00:34:27] them because it along the same lines

[00:34:29] of what Anthony Edwards said right

[00:34:30] he called them plumbers and firemen

[00:34:33] and Jerry West came out of the

[00:34:34] and just absolutely obliterated JJ Reddick

[00:34:37] for that thought we asked Kevin Grievi

[00:34:39] about it so what do you think right

[00:34:40] when people look back at the players you played

[00:34:42] against and they say listen men

[00:34:44] they weren't that good they were plumbers they were

[00:34:46] firemen they had to have second jobs they weren't

[00:34:48] that good what do you say to that

[00:34:51] they had second jobs because

[00:34:53] they wouldn't pay in that well but

[00:34:54] there's some guys that just roleplay us

[00:34:56] we would we make the good money the big money

[00:34:59] but we've had

[00:35:00] and we were smarter these guys

[00:35:02] the county but they got

[00:35:05] basketball they don't know basketball

[00:35:06] they don't know they don't know what

[00:35:08] a picking role is and things like that

[00:35:10] they don't know I play with West and he said

[00:35:12] that picking roles and I'm gonna be wide open

[00:35:14] because you don't set a wall and you can't get over

[00:35:17] so it's just basic things

[00:35:19] basic basketball back doors

[00:35:21] and we're like that is great now

[00:35:22] date back in the day they used to go to the basket

[00:35:24] and you go for land now you

[00:35:26] go to the basket and you thought I was 25

[00:35:28] feet for what

[00:35:30] are you serious

[00:35:32] you throw in the back out

[00:35:33] a five foot shot you got a 25 foot shot

[00:35:38] that's basketball

[00:35:39] that's a mother's tip

[00:35:40] and then this stuff this

[00:35:42] Euro step that's a walk

[00:35:44] that's a walk

[00:35:46] and look this guy up and we're walking he's

[00:35:48] seven two he don't need no help

[00:35:51] she don't need no help he's coming at

[00:35:53] you like 900

[00:35:54] he don't need no help he's coming

[00:35:57] okay he's talking about the Euro

[00:35:59] are you?

[00:36:00] I'm like oh man give me a break

[00:36:02] I know that's one of the things Steve wanted to do

[00:36:04] was to kind of do some rapid fire reaction

[00:36:06] on players and I think we just got one

[00:36:08] but before we get there Steve would you're okay

[00:36:10] I just had one last question

[00:36:12] and then I'd love Steve to give you some

[00:36:14] names and would love to get your thoughts

[00:36:17] on them because that's pretty fascinating

[00:36:18] but here's my last question for you

[00:36:21] you've had a remarkable career in the game

[00:36:23] again going back to

[00:36:25] college the Olympics

[00:36:26] NBA champion that's the pinnacle

[00:36:29] man that's the time that's why everybody plays

[00:36:30] and you got there that's amazing

[00:36:32] to me so I'm curious now looking back

[00:36:34] what's your greatest memory

[00:36:37] in basketball

[00:36:38] across the board high school college the Olympics

[00:36:40] the NBA if we were

[00:36:42] to pinpoint it man one great memory

[00:36:44] what is it that you take away

[00:36:46] from your career in the game?

[00:36:48] Winner championship

[00:36:50] winner championship and

[00:36:53] being able to get to the finals because

[00:36:54] you want to get to the finals because

[00:36:56] everybody else can be watching

[00:36:58] everybody you got there

[00:36:59] but we won the championship and the

[00:37:02] thing about winning is the 7th game

[00:37:05] we played in Seattle they had a better record

[00:37:07] so it was

[00:37:08] 3-3, 7th game was on Wednesday

[00:37:10] I never forget it was June 7th

[00:37:12] and we were warming up

[00:37:13] and there was an outtow on the loudspeaker

[00:37:16] said there will be

[00:37:18] a victory parade

[00:37:20] for the world champion Seattle Superstarters

[00:37:22] so I'm warming up

[00:37:24] so I run by the table I says

[00:37:25] you can't play for them are you serious

[00:37:28] you can't play for them

[00:37:30] that there was my spark

[00:37:31] that got me to point where

[00:37:34] and my thing was a controlled tempo

[00:37:35] so we control the tempo the whole game

[00:37:38] and then if you watch that game

[00:37:40] we score within 7-8 seconds

[00:37:42] for each quarter to the buzzer

[00:37:44] and Charlie Johnson

[00:37:46] hit a 3-4 shot

[00:37:48] and it hit from 3-4

[00:37:50] and just never bottom

[00:37:51] so within 5-6 seconds

[00:37:54] we scored the trapping to the buzzer

[00:37:56] and then in fact we had Bobby Danders

[00:37:58] that was a piece of the puzzle

[00:38:00] I don't clearly know he did it

[00:38:02] but that was a piece of the puzzle

[00:38:04] and my thing was I knew how to run a team

[00:38:06] you have to take advantage of what you have

[00:38:09] I know I can't

[00:38:10] even that's a game we played

[00:38:12] and Paul Silas

[00:38:14] was posting up

[00:38:16] Paul Silas in the throat

[00:38:18] Paul Silas took two steps back

[00:38:20] and punched Elvin in the back of the head

[00:38:22] this is in front of referee

[00:38:23] so the next 2 quarters

[00:38:26] I can't find Elvin

[00:38:27] he's playing but he's not there

[00:38:28] he won't come to the ball

[00:38:30] so I tell him to begin the 4-4 to the big phone

[00:38:34] I don't know where you been

[00:38:36] I just know you ain't been here

[00:38:38] so we're going to win this with or without you

[00:38:40] so the 4-4 these are playing

[00:38:42] these guys you got to know how they are

[00:38:44] you got to know how they are

[00:38:45] you're mine

[00:38:46] every other week I cut Elvin out

[00:38:48] so then in 79

[00:38:50] every other week Bobby Dan just cut him out

[00:38:52] that's how we kept him in check

[00:38:53] we kept him in check that way because some guys

[00:38:56] think they're perfect players

[00:38:58] no, you're not going to be a perfect player

[00:39:00] you're going to have floor walls and whatnot

[00:39:02] and that's when you get along

[00:39:03] and Elvin I just

[00:39:05] I used to cut him out

[00:39:06] I missed him on the pass and he came out

[00:39:09] after the huddle

[00:39:10] after then he was talking to my mother

[00:39:12] and he was something like that

[00:39:13] so we walked up on the court I said

[00:39:15] oh you mad at me?

[00:39:16] you mad at me? I said okay you miss me

[00:39:18] you miss me all the time because you can't pass

[00:39:21] but I miss you one time and you going

[00:39:23] you tripping I said okay

[00:39:24] I want to bring you the ball for a month

[00:39:27] he says oh Tommy I'm sorry

[00:39:29] I'm sorry

[00:39:30] I'm sorry he cried

[00:39:33] and apologized for two weeks

[00:39:36] I said I want to bring you the ball

[00:39:38] because I think I got the ball 95%

[00:39:40] time

[00:39:41] and he's him guys like that

[00:39:44] stat phonetics

[00:39:45] he looked at the stat half time

[00:39:47] to see how many points, how many rebounds he got

[00:39:49] so if I don't bring him the ball he's pissed

[00:39:51] he can't do that so

[00:39:53] he apologized and whatnot and said man

[00:39:55] just stay for a week leave me alone

[00:39:57] just do your job and sit with me

[00:39:59] because I don't do that

[00:40:00] I don't like playing with guys like that

[00:40:02] just play your game didn't it work out?

[00:40:04] again a perfect segue to

[00:40:06] what Steve I think has in store

[00:40:08] he's going to throw out some names we're going to get your thoughts

[00:40:10] but I do want to call out before I hand it over to you Steve

[00:40:12] in game 7

[00:40:13] Tom Henderson 4 of 9

[00:40:16] 15 points

[00:40:17] what am I looking at here 2 assists

[00:40:19] 4 steals that's a solid game 7

[00:40:22] performance man

[00:40:24] yeah it was enjoyable and just

[00:40:26] to win because I never

[00:40:27] in high school we went to the finals

[00:40:29] and lost college I went to

[00:40:32] MIT with

[00:40:33] junior college we didn't get out of

[00:40:35] Texas we were 37

[00:40:37] and 4 first year 36

[00:40:39] and 6 never got out of Texas never went to

[00:40:41] national so in Hawaii I went

[00:40:43] to MIT and lost the second round to

[00:40:45] Purdue to get it at the top of your level

[00:40:48] or something you do that was a big thing

[00:40:50] that was the big thing

[00:40:51] and to contribute like you did

[00:40:54] absolutely and to contribute like you did

[00:40:56] in 41 minutes is impressive

[00:40:58] Steve you got some names right

[00:40:59] Tom I'm going to throw some names out at you

[00:41:02] and if you can

[00:41:03] just a sentence or two

[00:41:05] and just to sum up the person

[00:41:07] a lot of them are coaches but there's some

[00:41:09] players in here and all

[00:41:11] and some things here your favorite

[00:41:14] teammate

[00:41:15] probably Bobby Dandridge and

[00:41:17] Lou Hudson was so funny because

[00:41:19] he was the big guard

[00:41:21] Atlanta he was about 25 but

[00:41:23] Lou Hudson was so physical

[00:41:25] he was so physical and genuine and I

[00:41:27] seen the swing on big Bob linear

[00:41:29] and he beat up Henry Finkel so

[00:41:31] he wouldn't if you teach him he wouldn't

[00:41:33] hesitate to fight you so he was a great

[00:41:35] teammate he could go how about

[00:41:37] Cotton Fitzsimmons? Cotton was

[00:41:39] a good bull shitter he's one of the best

[00:41:41] okay he'll be a great use car

[00:41:43] salesman because she used

[00:41:45] my first coach and so he was talking to me

[00:41:47] he had all and Cotton had a good idea

[00:41:49] he had a good idea but he had

[00:41:51] three young guys but me so

[00:41:53] Jonah and Drew but

[00:41:55] we're not all on the same basketball

[00:41:57] level and see Drew was

[00:41:59] a second round pick but he had better get

[00:42:00] me and so Jenna okay and so Jenna

[00:42:03] was a powerful and not a center

[00:42:04] but Cotton was good Cotton was good and

[00:42:06] then we got you be after that so

[00:42:08] you we would get to him I'm gonna get

[00:42:10] to him let's try Bill Fitch

[00:42:13] I couldn't say Bill Fitch

[00:42:14] they get Bill Fitch and

[00:42:16] Dick Mata they bring them in to

[00:42:18] give it all the older guys okay

[00:42:21] they'd give it to bring

[00:42:23] them in to get all the older guys okay

[00:42:25] I never liked Fitch but you know what it's

[00:42:27] amazing Bill Fitch got into Hall of Fame

[00:42:29] with losing record how

[00:42:31] does that happen? Where does that come

[00:42:33] I don't this Hall of Fame thing I don't get

[00:42:35] it because some of these guys that get in I'm like

[00:42:37] how does that happen so

[00:42:39] it's different now it's quite different

[00:42:41] I guess they use all the things

[00:42:43] you did all your college

[00:42:44] everything compared so

[00:42:47] I never was a fan of Fitch okay

[00:42:48] I never was a fan and then

[00:42:50] he went to fact I have how you got the job

[00:42:52] at Boston we were in Japan

[00:42:54] and 75-76

[00:42:57] and he Boston just won

[00:42:58] so we're in Japan

[00:43:00] and there's five was over there

[00:43:02] and we was out there for two weeks

[00:43:04] and Bill Fitch was kissing

[00:43:06] Red Arrow's butt for the whole

[00:43:08] two weeks so that's how you got the job

[00:43:10] okay that's how you got the job

[00:43:13] so that was but sometimes

[00:43:15] just so my thing is

[00:43:16] just you know you have respect for them

[00:43:18] if they win can win with

[00:43:20] what if you got talent and then we

[00:43:22] he has a good talent

[00:43:24] but then they never got out to Eastern Conference

[00:43:26] okay that's a good talent

[00:43:28] Boston was always a juggernaut

[00:43:30] they couldn't get past Boston so

[00:43:32] you gotta figure it out sometime

[00:43:33] toughest guy you ever played against

[00:43:36] Pete Maverich in George Gerber

[00:43:38] Pete Maverich these guys

[00:43:40] they gave me some 40s I got traded

[00:43:41] I was part of the deal I was first on Pete

[00:43:44] so Pete Maverich went to New Orleans

[00:43:46] so for the next two and a half years

[00:43:48] we played them six times a year

[00:43:51] Pete averaged 43 for 18 games

[00:43:54] okay so Pete was tough

[00:43:56] okay and so my friend played

[00:43:59] but so he played for New Orleans

[00:44:01] so we out there having a beer one time

[00:44:03] with the club

[00:44:04] and some shit next to Pete we having a beer

[00:44:06] I said Peter I didn't make the damn trade

[00:44:09] I don't know why you bad at me

[00:44:11] I didn't do it okay

[00:44:12] because he was 40 something

[00:44:14] I just seen some 40s him and Gerber

[00:44:15] I just seen some 40s

[00:44:17] but I ain't never seen no 50s

[00:44:20] 60s and 70s

[00:44:21] look if somebody hit over 40

[00:44:24] and then 40 I'm gonna file out

[00:44:25] after 30 I'm gonna use 5 or 6 of my best

[00:44:28] okay I was supposed to be watching

[00:44:30] because he's cooking tonight

[00:44:31] okay he's cooking

[00:44:33] so I'm like no I'm not gonna do that

[00:44:36] I'm not gonna be watching you get 50s and 60s

[00:44:38] we not and I was looking

[00:44:40] at I was talking to a friend of mine Sam Mitchell

[00:44:41] and he does his camp in Columbus Georgia

[00:44:44] to do the Columbus Georgia

[00:44:45] I do the camp with him for years now

[00:44:47] he was coaching me

[00:44:49] then when Kobe hit the 81

[00:44:51] and my son called me and said

[00:44:53] dad Kobe hit 81

[00:44:55] I thought that's a misprint

[00:44:57] I looked at him and said he hit 81 for sure

[00:45:00] I said and I talked

[00:45:01] to Sam that someone I said man

[00:45:04] someone's later and he said man

[00:45:05] I said how did that happen

[00:45:07] and I said he ain't had no broken arm

[00:45:09] no broken leg I said

[00:45:11] 81 and I said

[00:45:13] I was on out of fire

[00:45:15] Jew and find everybody okay

[00:45:17] he didn't walk out there with nothing

[00:45:19] no hurt he's a limp

[00:45:21] carried him out in wheelchair some more stretcher

[00:45:24] but 81

[00:45:25] I mean you're getting your

[00:45:27] you're fouling out before you

[00:45:29] get hey we're not

[00:45:32] doing that look

[00:45:33] he's cooking tonight so I better be watching

[00:45:35] I got the best seat in town so

[00:45:38] I'm gonna be watching because I'm like

[00:45:40] damn okay so

[00:45:41] I can't imagine I thought I just

[00:45:43] see the boy but we're

[00:45:45] going in what's the name but my average but

[00:45:47] no I ain't 50

[00:45:48] when they hit 71 I'm like who's

[00:45:51] guarding them and then back in the back

[00:45:53] in my day they had we had

[00:45:55] five big guys they had

[00:45:57] six files of peace okay

[00:45:59] so that's 30 files

[00:46:02] they gonna

[00:46:03] when they finish them 30 files

[00:46:05] they gonna be carrying them out on the stretcher

[00:46:07] okay they gonna use

[00:46:09] all six files okay so

[00:46:10] it's a different era entirely okay

[00:46:13] you can't touch anybody now so

[00:46:14] I get that

[00:46:17] you'll be brown

[00:46:19] oh it's you be

[00:46:20] you was a character man and you had the right

[00:46:23] idea he said whatever comes out of the

[00:46:25] point guard position you brought for responsible

[00:46:27] which we'll use out there for a year

[00:46:29] not a year with you be

[00:46:31] because he got middle my second season

[00:46:33] that's when he got hired and got

[00:46:35] covered cotton

[00:46:36] and then he was a good thing but he

[00:46:39] was a customs sailor okay

[00:46:41] he would call us to the foul line

[00:46:43] and he would call us so many ms

[00:46:44] I'm like wow

[00:46:46] then he would go out and play him like wow

[00:46:48] he wouldn't do it at the bench it's who's close to the fan

[00:46:51] so he'd come out of

[00:46:52] and come out to the foul in the middle of court

[00:46:54] okay so he would cuss us out

[00:46:57] he just he was pretty good but he just

[00:46:59] he just had a different approach

[00:47:00] somebody chose his ever different approach

[00:47:02] how about Karim

[00:47:05] Karim was one of the best

[00:47:06] he just he was one of the best

[00:47:08] and then he was just he's a funny guy

[00:47:11] if you get to know him he's a

[00:47:12] he's let loose

[00:47:14] he relaxed it but she they been messing with

[00:47:16] him so long that he just

[00:47:18] he didn't open up

[00:47:19] but if he liked you he'd open up so we

[00:47:22] sang out in Hawaii we would do the

[00:47:24] solo games and went out he would come out there

[00:47:26] he was a good guy he's a good guy

[00:47:28] just always had respect for him

[00:47:29] then by the fact he was in the military while they were using

[00:47:32] so we warmed up and he said

[00:47:34] before the game that they'd shoot around

[00:47:36] we were shooting around and when I said

[00:47:38] okay they shoot around first and we come on

[00:47:39] so he said okay man you come out to the house

[00:47:42] but I'm gonna send you back in a cab

[00:47:44] I said man hell with you

[00:47:46] hell if I take you

[00:47:47] I'm gonna bring you home okay so

[00:47:49] we might hang out but you ain't gonna take me

[00:47:52] and send me back I can bake my own cab

[00:47:54] okay I can bake my own cab

[00:47:56] so I'm not we're not doing that but we always

[00:47:58] been kept pretty cool he was a good guy

[00:48:00] how about magic

[00:48:03] magic you play

[00:48:04] magic you play but

[00:48:06] I saw him when he came out

[00:48:07] I think I was starting to watch him when he came out in McDonald's

[00:48:10] all-american game

[00:48:11] they played it watching and I saw him

[00:48:14] throw a full court bounce pass

[00:48:16] to I think wording

[00:48:18] and to wording

[00:48:20] and he just preached it up

[00:48:21] and laid it up right in stride I said

[00:48:23] I told him he was 6'6 at the time

[00:48:25] I told my friend I said he's gonna be smutting

[00:48:27] I think cause I never seen nobody

[00:48:29] and by the fact Clark Kellogg

[00:48:31] was playing that night too

[00:48:33] and he was too but his legs

[00:48:35] hold up but he could really play

[00:48:38] too Clark Kellogg

[00:48:38] and then wording I didn't think

[00:48:41] wording was that good until he got to

[00:48:42] North Carolina then he excelled because

[00:48:44] that night he was just normal but

[00:48:46] that night he was just much quicker but

[00:48:48] if you notice he didn't

[00:48:50] really never had a jump shot

[00:48:52] he had a set shot he shot it from

[00:48:54] his waist he shot it from

[00:48:56] his chest he never shot a jump shot

[00:48:58] over but it was so quick he could get it off

[00:49:00] after he tricked everybody but

[00:49:02] yep well

[00:49:03] oh, Larry Bird

[00:49:04] oh, Larry was tough

[00:49:07] he was tough

[00:49:08] one time we ran him

[00:49:11] and when we used him to finals

[00:49:13] he was talking stuff to me and some

[00:49:15] stuff to them and he tried to boot him

[00:49:18] and I come around he booted me

[00:49:19] so next time I come around and I come around

[00:49:21] the screen and I try to punch

[00:49:23] him in his ribs

[00:49:25] I try to punch him in his ribs

[00:49:27] felt like I hit a brick wall

[00:49:29] I hit a damn brick wall

[00:49:31] look we went to the day called time

[00:49:33] I went to the side and I said

[00:49:35] it's a bro I'm not gonna let him know

[00:49:37] he hurt me but man that's why

[00:49:39] hey then big guys if I fight

[00:49:41] I'm gonna go get a chair that's not fair

[00:49:43] you can't fight nobody that big

[00:49:44] okay it's like

[00:49:46] the biggest houses okay I'm not doing that

[00:49:48] can I ask one

[00:49:50] sure

[00:49:51] I got one for you it's also a big guy

[00:49:55] but not particularly

[00:49:58] strong

[00:49:59] or at least didn't come out that way

[00:50:00] you mentioned him before and I loved watching him play

[00:50:03] when I was younger George Gervin

[00:50:05] oh man

[00:50:06] that's another one he would get 40 some look

[00:50:09] and we were good friends because

[00:50:11] we come to watching I would take him out

[00:50:13] take him back to hotel

[00:50:14] I go to Santone he'd take me out

[00:50:18] we're playing

[00:50:19] watching I take him out and have a beer

[00:50:21] too and then we go back to hotel

[00:50:22] and we go to Houston

[00:50:24] no we go to Santone he'd take me back to hotel

[00:50:27] and he said man

[00:50:28] I did some early this morning

[00:50:32] and I'm just coming down

[00:50:33] excuse me he didn't give me 44

[00:50:36] I said you did that

[00:50:38] on not right

[00:50:40] and you did that to me

[00:50:42] I said man pull over let me take a cab

[00:50:44] I take a cab that's okay

[00:50:46] that's okay but he was a nice guy

[00:50:48] he was really nice guy and most guys

[00:50:50] I didn't hang out because I didn't like too many

[00:50:52] if I like you we good we cool

[00:50:54] and I respect you that's not a problem

[00:50:56] I respect guys I respect

[00:50:57] and say had to went out in

[00:50:59] but some I just didn't mess with

[00:51:02] and then me and Ricky Subbler went to high school together

[00:51:04] and Ricky Subbler

[00:51:05] was the best player in the school

[00:51:08] when I was a senior

[00:51:09] but I tease him out

[00:51:10] Ricky wouldn't go to school

[00:51:13] Ricky would go to lunch

[00:51:14] and shoot quarters and nickels

[00:51:16] and shoot against the wall

[00:51:18] so he wouldn't go to school

[00:51:20] so I told him I tease him all the time

[00:51:22] I said you was the baddest guy in high school

[00:51:23] but I was the baddest guy that went to school

[00:51:26] you didn't go to school

[00:51:28] so he went to junior college with Victor Kelly

[00:51:30] and they had to send him back because he only had finished 11th grade

[00:51:33] so he had to go back to his GED

[00:51:35] then he finally went

[00:51:36] but I said you got to remarkable story

[00:51:38] after you played 10 years in league

[00:51:40] in the first round pick

[00:51:41] and never I said she never played in high school

[00:51:44] but he could play

[00:51:45] he could play

[00:51:47] Who else you got Steve?

[00:51:49] Who was the one guy that you hated playing against?

[00:51:55] I hated playing against Garvin

[00:51:56] and Mervry and Mavry too

[00:51:58] but then also I hated playing against Calvin Mervry

[00:52:01] because Calvin used to trip me all the time

[00:52:03] okay

[00:52:04] I'd be running down the court and he would trip me

[00:52:05] so he'd trip me with Atlanta

[00:52:07] and then with Washington he'd trip me

[00:52:09] so we played in Houston

[00:52:11] and we lost in double overtime

[00:52:14] he'd trip me four times

[00:52:15] the next day we played

[00:52:17] back to back we played Washington next night

[00:52:19] so we flew back home next one

[00:52:21] so that night I didn't go out I didn't do nothing

[00:52:23] because I said this got to stop

[00:52:25] he can't do this no more

[00:52:26] and I told Ruffry that if he's still the boy

[00:52:28] he did something wrong I got a string on him

[00:52:31] so he would trip me because I'm crossing my leg

[00:52:33] crossing my you know going around him

[00:52:35] he kicked that foot and I'd go down

[00:52:37] he'd reach over the ceiling so

[00:52:38] for the game when I got to Washington

[00:52:40] I thought I'd land after I got to fight him

[00:52:42] so I got to Washington

[00:52:43] then we got for the game I shook everybody's hands

[00:52:46] I threw my hands out and said let's go

[00:52:47] let's play a little bit we're gonna fight

[00:52:49] we're gonna play a little bit more

[00:52:50] but you're not tripping me no more

[00:52:52] so he says to me he says

[00:52:54] you don't lost your mind

[00:52:55] I said probably but

[00:52:57] you're not gonna trip me no more

[00:52:59] he never tripped me again so

[00:53:01] when I got with Houston he told me how

[00:53:03] he would do it and he was telling me

[00:53:06] I'm about to get him, I'm about to get him

[00:53:07] then he said how Greer taught him how to trip

[00:53:10] and I'm like

[00:53:11] amazed I said what

[00:53:13] he said how Greer taught him how to trip people

[00:53:16] I'm like that's amazing

[00:53:17] okay and he was good

[00:53:18] he was one of the best ever thing to trip

[00:53:21] he would trip me and I was like

[00:53:22] man this is ridiculous

[00:53:24] but he was good at it

[00:53:25] but I got with Houston he never tripped me again

[00:53:27] no I got Washington he never tripped me again after that

[00:53:29] I said for next five years he never tripped me

[00:53:32] and I said okay we better

[00:53:33] because we're gonna fight you're not gonna do that

[00:53:35] I don't like you can't cheap shop me

[00:53:37] okay we can play strong play tough

[00:53:39] but you don't want to take no cheap shop

[00:53:41] respect the game I get it

[00:53:43] how about Dick Mata

[00:53:46] Dick was good

[00:53:47] because Dick he had that Chicago offense

[00:53:50] and it was a good offense

[00:53:51] and what Dick was amazed

[00:53:53] your offense is dictated

[00:53:56] by how to defense plays

[00:53:57] because everybody knows everybody plays

[00:54:00] so you know Mata

[00:54:01] I ran the slaves brother and he drove them up

[00:54:04] so I would take what they get them

[00:54:05] like I had Wes, Elvin, Bobby Dander

[00:54:08] and Kevin

[00:54:10] Kevin I said where come you jump

[00:54:12] I said I'm gonna get you 15 open jumpers

[00:54:14] at night I said oh yeah

[00:54:16] do make half I said if you don't make half

[00:54:18] then get me 15 I'll make

[00:54:20] them okay so we had that understanding

[00:54:23] he got better he got better

[00:54:24] with it Kevin was good Kevin good so we

[00:54:26] I got done we had five guys that started

[00:54:29] they didn't really like each other

[00:54:30] but we stepped on the floor

[00:54:33] it was business everybody knew

[00:54:34] their role and they know I'm gonna take

[00:54:37] care of so that was a good thing

[00:54:38] Steve did you have one more

[00:54:40] no go ahead

[00:54:41] let me finish with this because this is

[00:54:44] pretty fascinating and I love that you brought

[00:54:46] it up right the 1970s

[00:54:49] Oakland days famously

[00:54:51] brawled in the dugout but one

[00:54:53] championships Kobe

[00:54:54] and Shaq didn't like each other but one

[00:54:56] championships you

[00:54:58] don't need to like each other to win

[00:55:01] no no you got do your job

[00:55:03] okay you do your

[00:55:04] job then they all come out in the wash

[00:55:06] okay if you do like each other that's a plus

[00:55:08] but right we didn't see these

[00:55:10] guys hang out and go to movies go to dinner

[00:55:12] we can do that we

[00:55:14] didn't want to do it we want to get away

[00:55:17] from each other but when we step on that

[00:55:19] court you will just held the pay

[00:55:21] you gotta be able to touch and see

[00:55:23] I knew if you give me what I need

[00:55:25] I could win I knew how to win

[00:55:27] okay I know how to win I'm used all

[00:55:29] the pieces okay all the

[00:55:31] pieces I had and then if I need to

[00:55:32] score I see my first five years

[00:55:35] I could score I scored double

[00:55:37] figures okay but my last

[00:55:39] four years I lost love of the game

[00:55:41] because all that bullshit

[00:55:43] involved okay just it's a simple

[00:55:46] game with then we had look

[00:55:47] I had Dale Harris

[00:55:48] oh my god that was a

[00:55:51] true idiot okay true

[00:55:53] idiot so and he had got

[00:55:55] the job from Tom

[00:55:57] was his contract was up

[00:55:59] Del called Ray Pax in one day doing

[00:56:01] something has Tom signed yet

[00:56:03] and he knew he hadn't so he says if

[00:56:05] I'm not being too hard what is the

[00:56:07] action he said he's asking for 500

[00:56:09] thousand which he deserved and he should

[00:56:11] have got it he said no

[00:56:13] well I do it for half that

[00:56:15] he didn't stab them in the neck

[00:56:17] you doing it for half that

[00:56:19] they went for that okay

[00:56:21] they went for that

[00:56:22] but just amazing

[00:56:24] there's no loyalty okay

[00:56:27] it's business it's no loyalty so that's

[00:56:29] how you get the job and so and then

[00:56:30] I was amazed at the lake of Adam see

[00:56:33] he was coaching Kobe when first

[00:56:35] Kobe first came in so he sat

[00:56:37] Kobe for a couple years which

[00:56:39] was a joke you got to

[00:56:41] look when you got talent you know

[00:56:43] today you know you got a talent you got

[00:56:45] a thoroughbred okay

[00:56:47] you got a thoroughbred

[00:56:48] okay I gotta tell you

[00:56:50] you don't know if you can play unless

[00:56:53] you get some time this is

[00:56:55] because my first got to Atlanta I didn't

[00:56:56] know if I can play in Dean Minster got hurt

[00:56:58] and I got a chance to play 30 minutes

[00:57:00] again for about 20 25 games

[00:57:03] and I could realize I could

[00:57:05] play in this okay

[00:57:07] I can play in this that's who you got to

[00:57:08] find out because you don't know

[00:57:10] if you don't get no time you don't know

[00:57:12] I'm from LA and I can tell

[00:57:14] you that you are absolutely right

[00:57:16] and the general consensus

[00:57:18] out here when Del Harris

[00:57:20] took a 17 year old admittedly he was

[00:57:22] very young but this guy

[00:57:24] everybody saw how good he was Jerry West

[00:57:26] you know today and you

[00:57:28] play him you don't know playing a lot of

[00:57:30] men but you work him into it you work

[00:57:32] him into it and he's gonna get more and more

[00:57:34] confident because when you get go along

[00:57:36] your confidence that's how you know

[00:57:38] and confidence and then even go to

[00:57:40] college so his confidence once he

[00:57:42] gets in there playing with the big boys

[00:57:43] with time you can realize it

[00:57:46] and then he had a hell of a work ethic

[00:57:48] he had one of the best work ethics

[00:57:49] that you can imagine okay

[00:57:52] and so that's what it is and then

[00:57:54] that's why these coaches most of them

[00:57:55] want you to play around their coaching

[00:57:58] no coach around my talent

[00:58:01] okay this

[00:58:02] these thoroughbreds if you got some

[00:58:03] thoroughbreds that's what you got

[00:58:05] you take horses and in line up we had

[00:58:08] ponies which is watching red horses

[00:58:10] when I got to Houston we had some

[00:58:12] nice red horses some nice red ponies

[00:58:13] okay you take horses

[00:58:15] to the horse race you don't take ponies

[00:58:17] okay you got to take horses

[00:58:19] then you got a shot and then

[00:58:21] what you do is get to the playoff

[00:58:23] you get to the playoff you got a shot

[00:58:26] you have a shot of a better way

[00:58:27] to end this conversation

[00:58:29] what just incredible insight

[00:58:31] so much fun talking to you

[00:58:33] and I love that we're ending it as an

[00:58:35] LA guy with a conversation about Kobe

[00:58:37] but that's it we hope that you

[00:58:39] absolutely enjoyed this

[00:58:41] incredibly unspiltered conversation

[00:58:43] that was a good thing I enjoyed it

[00:58:45] I enjoyed y'all I appreciate y'all

[00:58:46] and somebody said they were gonna

[00:58:48] actually about left again I said I didn't have much to tell

[00:58:51] to think about left this is just

[00:58:53] different okay I called him at the time

[00:58:55] he was used to being pampered in high

[00:58:57] school and we weren't gonna pamper

[00:58:59] okay we were gonna pamper and we all

[00:59:01] trying to figure it out and I think people

[00:59:03] don't realize San Diego was the best

[00:59:05] basketball I have played junior college

[00:59:07] basketball because every night I had to

[00:59:09] fight one of them dirt farmers

[00:59:10] and then when I got to Hawaii like every

[00:59:13] five to six games I was running somebody in my position

[00:59:15] but in junior college every

[00:59:17] night it was a fight okay so

[00:59:19] it was quite different

[00:59:20] unfiltered that's what we're calling this podcast

[00:59:23] we're calling this unfiltered with

[00:59:25] NBA that's all right

[00:59:27] it was a pleasure

[00:59:28] it's my pleasure it's at some

[00:59:31] point if you don't mind I might

[00:59:33] call you about an opinion or a thought on different things

[00:59:36] no problem no problem be my

[00:59:38] pleasure all right you guys have a good one okay

[00:59:40] thank you so much

[00:59:41] next week on 13 rules running

[00:59:43] NBA thoughts over time podcast

[00:59:44] even I will discuss the 1985 Celtics

[00:59:47] versus Lakers finals and

[00:59:49] excited to talk about that one Steve

[00:59:50] Tom Anderson thanks again appreciate

[00:59:53] my pleasure you take it I have a good day all right

[00:59:55] thank you all you too bye bye

[00:59:57] right now