13 Rules: Overtime! Sam Jones

[00:00:00] Alright, I'm Jose Salviati, editor at ThePeachBasket.net He's Steve Prashello, longtime educator, vice principal and athletic director And this is 13 Rules Overtime This is a podcast that Steve and I, and really I credit Steve, it's his idea

[00:00:16] to set aside some time during the off season to talk about players that I guarantee you've heard of but whose game you may not know, maybe you've never seen him play We're really going to focus on NBA stars from the 70s and the 80s What made them special?

[00:00:33] What player today most resembles that player and what Steve's greatest memory about that player because he probably got to see them play I've been talking to Steve for a while now He has memories of watching Will Chamberlain and Jerry West and Bill Russell

[00:00:50] And it's just fascinating to me, not only getting to watch those guys play So today we're going to discuss the player who won the second-merced NBA championships in NBA history Number one, of course, is Bill Russell Number two, is Boston Southlake Sam Jones

[00:01:08] I got to know and I admittedly couldn't pick him out of a lineup I don't know anything about his name About his name I don't really about his game, but I know his name And so that makes him a perfect topic of conversation for 13 Rules Overtime

[00:01:24] Steve, you got to watch Sam Jones So let's tell us the story of Sam Jones I'm going to ask some questions as we go along But I want to start at the beginning I know the NBA was different than I know scouting was different than the NBA

[00:01:40] Draft was different than So take us back, right? As far as you can remember To who Sam Jones maybe was in college How he got to the Celtics Before he got those 10 championships Well, first of all he went to North Carolina Central

[00:01:55] And he played for a guy by the name of John McClendon John McClendon is a Walfan coach And one of the first Well, one of the first-name coaches in college and everything else But anyway, John McClendon I'll just give you a side note on this

[00:02:09] John McClendon coached in the ABL Not the ABA That old Lester for about two years Coached for the Cleveland Pipers, I believe it was But anyway He got fired But he worked for an interesting owner A guy by the name of George Steinbrenner

[00:02:23] Who I think we're going to hear about A few more times over the years But Sam Jones went to North Carolina Central Now back then Teams didn't really get the scout players And scouting departments really didn't exist So Red Arbeck ran everything with the Celtic

[00:02:39] He did everything in the front office Red Arbeck went to North Carolina To scout some North Carolina players Which did scout a little bit But Bones McKinney, the coach down in North Carolina Told him You're in the wrong place The best player is over in the door room

[00:02:58] Naturally we think of Duke No, no, no, no North Carolina Central And he pointed them towards Sam Jones Arbeck chose him Before they chose him in 50s Next When this is about to be the 60s player In 56, the Minnesota Late Minneapolis Lakers Chose him in the draft

[00:03:16] But they didn't sign him Because Jones went back to school The four or five year rule and all that And then Arbeck took him the next year So he went to Boston He played there until 69 What, 10 championships? Russell won 8th straight with the Celtics at Arbeck

[00:03:35] He, Russell, Sam Jones and KC Jones Were the only three people to be part of that 8th straight championships Sam Jones was an offensive player KC Jones was the defender in the back court from Boston Jim Jones, they had a name Backboard Because he shot the ball uniquely

[00:03:53] He shot from the wings or anywhere But usually not in on But usually used the backboard to shoot And he was a great, great shooter Different type of game back then And obviously now Let me ask you about that A couple things Because number one, I always remember

[00:04:12] You know, the great Bill Walton Teaching the use of the backboard to his college players in the 70s If I'm not mistaken Right, and we don't see that in the NBA anymore Right, I just If you see somebody hit a bank shot Right, we're calling lucky

[00:04:27] Or you say the bank is open Right, we kind of make fun of it I do think there are few players I know Russell Westbrook likes to take those shots Kyrie Irving, what? Kyrie Irving, good point, right But it's weird, right?

[00:04:40] That we've kind of gone away from that It used to be a mainstay And now it is If that's just a comment on my part Feel free to comment But what I really wanted to dive into was J.J. Reddick, the new coach of the Los Angeles Lakers

[00:04:53] Got into a lot of trouble for staying Players in Sam Jones era were plumbers, right? So I mean And firemen And firemen Right, so I gotta ask you that Right, I mean You saw the plumbers in the farm and play Who was Sam Jones up against?

[00:05:09] It's probably against Jerry West Oscar Robertson, another not-mared basketball player He would play a few Wolf Reijer at the end He played against Wolf Reijer, it was great He played against some pretty good players I mean You know on his team on the Celtics

[00:05:24] While every number is retired But you had Bailey Howells, what a favor Heintzend was all Heintzend Tommy Heintzend, check his numbers out Check his numbers in one of the championships He had 37 points, I think in a game 7 I mean, check some of this stuff out

[00:05:39] And you'll be amazed Some of Bob Cousy, I mean John Havlicek who extends into the 70s These were all Celtics He's a great Hall of Fame players I was Sam Jones So who did he play against? He played against the best And he was part of

[00:05:56] Probably one of the great back course of all time Not scoring But between scoring and defense With he and Casey Jones Bill Sharman who Played with Cousy before the Jones boys became the guards He's a great player as we're talking about And that's just Boston

[00:06:11] There's a guy on the Lakers Your favorite, but Elgin Baylor I mean, yeah, they're not bearded So he knows I don't know what Baylor was a plumber or a fireman in the off season He probably during the season

[00:06:25] He was the first guy jumping and jumped out of the gym And did some amazing Yeah Well, you know I kind of resent what he said I kind of look at basketball Hey, players are much better than any of them they were

[00:06:39] However, these were the best of their time They did have to have regular jobs when the season's over The guy mentioned Tommy Heinz and sold insurance And then it was over Why? Because they make a lot of money back Right

[00:06:54] But in their time, the best of the group Yeah Now that's a great call out, right? I mean, the salaries today are mind boggling, right? And I think you would be just as Your mind would be just as boggled If you saw what these guys made back then

[00:07:08] It just wasn't enough And they had to go out there and have a second job And third shots maybe But you know, you do what you've got to do I do want to call out, right? If you are on YouTube, feel free to leave us a note

[00:07:19] Nick says, hey, hey to Nick Thanks for watching On Twitter, we can't get comments here We're on StreamYard But I am following Twitter So feel free to leave any comments And we will absolutely call them out So, I'm sorry You wanted to say something else about that?

[00:07:37] That's what we wanted I'm going to mention something So you get a perspective on salary And while gambling in the mid-60s Signed for $100,000 a year Which was unheard of Bill Russell Yes, yeah, yeah And then the paltry he signed right after For $100,001

[00:07:55] Because he wanted the upper hand And personally would do it Now $100,000 back then was like ungodly And people like they do now Were complaining about these athletes' salaries Sure Well, you know, it's always been relevant In the game But that was something that was there Now Sam Jones

[00:08:13] I just want to mention a couple of things Hallfammer Eight-time, I believe Eight-time, eight-time Wall Star Maybe five times all NBA Just a great player in a lot of ways He only out of 17.6 I think a game for his career

[00:08:31] But also he was selected on the first 25-year team The 50-year team And the 75-year team So it kind of tells you how highly he was considered From that time He was just a tremendous player Yeah Well, let's dive into that a little bit

[00:08:50] Because this is the thing that frustrates me In a sense Because you rattle off those statistics And I'm impressed But I can't envision this guy And I don't know who he was So who was he as a player? What did the Celtics rely on him to do?

[00:09:11] Was he a lockdown defender? Did he guard the other team's best player? Was he going to take the big shot in a big game? What was his game? Well, first of all, I made him It was five-time Wall Star Three times all of the NBA So I apologize

[00:09:28] Had it written down and let go back And I didn't know Going in What was his game he could shoot? He can score He was his scorer on the team He first of all with Boston Bagman Initially when he was drafted He had Kuzi and Sharman

[00:09:45] Two great guards, Hall of Famers Sharman retires Sam Jones comes in The shooting guard And then Kuzi retires Casey Jones becomes Those guys had to sit and wait their turn This is my point Because Boston was so good and so deep Yes, it took a while

[00:10:04] He was a scorer He could score He did well Now only 17 points a game in his career There's a reason Boston always prided themselves Not having anybody in the top 10 in scoring But in other words More of a balanced attack Sam and good players

[00:10:21] That they were able to do that So though Jones might have been the best scorer I guess until Hablachek came along And Hablachek played with him of course But until Hablachek came along He would probably be Heimstein and him Would be two of the better offensive players

[00:10:36] They ever had You know, when you told me that earlier That Boston kind of devalued For lack of a better word Scoring In the sense that they didn't want anybody in the top 10 That just baffled me But there was a method to that

[00:10:51] I think he kind of brushed by that I think it's important They go back Arm back, believe in balance And all of those things on a team And he had enough great players And then he'd give a knight Heimstein could go off for Sam Jones And Russell

[00:11:05] Didn't quite go off But he would get his coins as well Usually I'm going to play up You know, put backs and things along that line But he would And Russell had a big lefty hook he would use Which was fair But they had so many different people

[00:11:22] That can put them Halichut came along Halichut might have been the first guy to come along And be a top 10 scorer In the league And that was in the late 60s, the late 70s I want to keep the focus on Sam Jones

[00:11:34] But I think I just put it at so interesting And I had to take a look The Southings had one player in the top 10 This season Right And that's Jason Tatum And he came in at number 10 Do you think some of that Red Arbac Mantra Or rules

[00:11:53] Does that still permeate? Is that still alive in Boston? No, not at all I think right now, you know The NBA is different now You're a mess now You just You get stars Stars win titles So you get You get stars Team with the most stars wins

[00:12:11] And generally in the NBA So I think it's a lot different Than it was then And by the way, you had a great player Bill Russell Who was willing to give them all up And really didn't want to score He just, you know Like win

[00:12:25] So I think it's a different bag Well, keeping the focus then on Sam Jones But also on today's NBA I love this question Because I think this really brings it home For me Having not seen Sam Jones play Is there a player in today's NBA game

[00:12:39] Or maybe conflating a couple of players To make this Sam Jones player up today Who most closely resembles Sam Jones' game In today's NBA? It's got to be a pure shooter And that's difficult Because now they have the three There was no three then Clay Thompson

[00:12:57] In his day was a pretty good shooter Like Jones He can shoot Jones wasn't nearly as good a defensive player But they both can shoot the ball Real well There's other guys that were very good shooters Jones got his points around the perimeter You know 15 footers, 18 footers

[00:13:15] That kind of stuff He did So it's very difficult to compare him with anybody in the NBA today In my mind I think if a guy like Lou Hudson Who was back in the 70s Was a great pure shooter The time in the NBA when Dives

[00:13:31] Were, you know, pure shooters But without the three It was hard to determine how far they were shooting from Jared was a tremendous shooter And he had great range Pete Maravich They were much, you know, great shooters with great range

[00:13:47] But they only got two points for those baskets Right It's hard to really put them with them And I'm gonna hold your feet to fire here man Because I want to name Does Clay Thompson come close? Pure shooter That's an ender Or pure shooter, much better defender

[00:14:05] Well, again, teams didn't have What a lot of teams have today They didn't have five guys that could score So you can get away less with defense Teams on offense Didn't run things where they Singled down or when it like Boston

[00:14:20] When they have to dodge it throughout the series Right You know, they didn't do things like that So they didn't go at people Like it was a whole different game And man-to-man defense was not nearly as intricate as it is today

[00:14:32] So there's, you know, it's apples and oranges That's the best way And back then you couldn't play zone either It was all man-to-man, right You know what, the zone That started when Richie Powers was a pretty good referee in his day

[00:14:44] He, and I'm trying to think of a year But he told the team to play zone And he wouldn't call it And that's when they really began to go after it But yeah, I guess they could and then But I'm not, you can't quote me on that

[00:14:57] But everybody play man-to-man then Right Right All right Well, interesting I guess What fascinates me about this guy Is he's arguably one of the greatest winners We always hear that about Bill Russell You don't really think of Sam Jones

[00:15:11] When you think of the greatest winners in the NBA But this guy won just as many, minus one So this guy was spectacular He had to have been Let's finish with your greatest memory You watched him play I didn't What's your greatest memory about Sam Jones?

[00:15:29] There's a 15-year-old boy Shouldn't have laying on the floor by the TV Of that Probably black and white I remember writing it was black and white But anyway, maybe it wasn't 100 years No, we didn't have that We didn't have that

[00:15:43] It might have been, I might have been collar But anyway, in the living room sitting there They're playing game four play-offs against the Lakers Wasn't it? This is 1969 That's my favorite Celtic team of all time But this is a team With Russell's last year

[00:15:57] Jones is going to retire He already announced it Russell won't announce it till August But he will go out And they were They were They were They were the only 148 games that year You know, to start with M. Bryant, who was a journeyman

[00:16:12] Played with the Knicks for a while M. Bryant, Sam Jones, John Havlicek Who's their best player Russell and Bailey Howell Who was a whole favor near the end of his career He played with a bunch of teams But finished Not didn't finish

[00:16:26] But was near the end with Boston Had those five Don Nelson, who was just coming along Was off the bench And he plays a partners Anyway, so now they're in game four They're down, I believe 88-87 With seven seconds left, I believe Anyway, Boston calls time out

[00:16:44] About the ball Lakers are winning Lakers are up two to one So if the Lakers win this game We go back to L.A. The series is over Well, you've got it right there Yes M. Bryant about to take the ball and bounce Number seven

[00:16:57] He'll throw it into Havlicek And you mentioned this guy was a journeyman, right? This is not an old-time great self-take No, no, no, no They picked him up there in a year They needed a point guard And I believe Larry Sinkfreed Might have been around then

[00:17:11] But he never really panned down As well as they thought he would They've got Sam Jones taking all Are you gonna play in this? Let's go Here we go Tell me when to stop Well, I believe that's Mendy Rudolf Who was one of the greatest refs

[00:17:24] Of all time Because he was lefty Throwing the ball to Nelson's come down And go, go, go, go That's a very important point Because Sam Jones didn't know that I'll mention that after Okay Sam, I mean Bill Russell out Who was the player coach, right? Yes

[00:17:40] But by the way Who replaced him? Don Nelson Okay Okay Nelson will play center How will they run it? Let's see It goes out of bounds And then they have to check Clock is moving By a second The Sam This one he put up

[00:17:56] Does this bring out the 15-year-old in you? Oh I jumped off the couch Left the floor But the point being on that was There's a couple interesting things to it Jones ran like baseline around On the play and came around

[00:18:09] And they ran three guys across the foul line To run a screen And it was interesting When he shoots it It goes off the front rim first I thought he missed it And I was like, oh The other interest After the game I remember this well

[00:18:27] They asked him about And Sam Jones said I knew if I get it to the rim Russell would be able to top it in Or maybe get the rebound The problem was he didn't know Russell was out of the game Right Just another piece to it

[00:18:42] And you got welk there And you get many rebounds What worked on the court So it was a very interesting thing That he did that But that shot Tied the series at 2-2 Boston went back to LA Blew out Boston And then Boston won game six at home

[00:19:00] And then beat them in the famous balloon game In game seven in the forum I hate to ask But there might be some people We had some significant 12 people listening Watching right now Welcome to all of you Again, if you're on YouTube Feel free to leave a comment

[00:19:17] If you're on Twitter Leave a comment We'd love to hear from you But some of those folks May not know what the balloon game is So I am from one of the game lists I'll be glad to explain it Game seven in the LA forum

[00:19:32] Which was just about brand new That Ken Cook was the owner He thought for sure Because he bought willed did And they were going to win a top Well He had Jerry West and will If you look at Jerry West numbers In game one and two

[00:19:45] He just won off in that series But in fact, he was the MVP of the series So they were thinking As soon as the game's over The balloons will fall And we're the champions And all that beautiful stuff Well, the game ends Boston wins

[00:20:00] If you ever get a chance Look at that part on YouTube Because they're back Or Jack Twyman was the announcer Interviewing the Celtics and so on But they get a guy by what a Stokey in his mouth Who was the general manager of Celtic This question was

[00:20:15] What are they going to do With those balloons? Which was just It was our back And it's arrogant self It was Boston That they were arrogant self It was just It was just perfect It was just a perfect way to end it

[00:20:28] I know a lot of Laker fans Might not have enjoyed it But it was just great It was just a great thing And it just made the game more fun For that 15-year-old watching we get And none of that would have been possible And it's important to know

[00:20:43] Without Sam Jones' shot we just saw That's right I mean We weren't even going down 3-1 at that point It would have been beating them five So win game seven there So many things had to go right That was don't forget That was game seven

[00:20:57] Where Will took result out of the game With a knee problem or whatever With five minutes left or so Lakers made a comeback Cut it pretty close Nelson's miracle shot Off the back rim straight up straight down Which I had never seen before

[00:21:11] I've seen it a couple times In the last couple years Never before when that happened Like oh my god Because Boston in that play In that 24 second They were at nothing And they finally found Jones And he shot it literally right before he

[00:21:26] The buzzer nose down the stretch of the game And Chamberlain then wanted to go back in Wasn't allowed to go back in by Coach Van Breedeklof Who got fired after the series There were so many things that went on that series And the thing that I

[00:21:40] The reason I loved the ball at that Boston team You took a bunch of cast older players Like Em Brine And you went out and won the series Another interesting thing I believe Russell played the whole game As Will usually did also

[00:21:54] But Russell played the whole game I believe But he played in the 40 minutes Think about that today You don't see that Russell was a 34 year old who was at the end So you know You get a good picture of the NBA then You know

[00:22:12] It was fun to watch I was like I didn't want About the plumbers and the firemen of that era But they played 48 minutes Nolan Ryan through 200 pitches They were spectacular And they were spectacular for As long as they needed to be spectacular

[00:22:31] Which I don't know if that's a good thing About today's game Or a bad thing about today's game But it's a fact Well it was just fun You know and again These guys aren't as good as they are today But the heaven is And so on I mean

[00:22:46] If you've read Jerry West's book I mean how this stuff ate at them And I don't know if the players of today I don't think Luke is pounding over at the playoffs And it's not enough I don't know Luke as much as

[00:22:59] You don't know if it was as competitive today As it was You know It was a whole Will took a pounding by the way For losing that series And you know was beat up for it And the press just took nobody Peace taken from them

[00:23:17] Like they did back then And there's a point on And by the way We're not having a title yet At that point And I was as close as you're gonna go You know They'll get in two years Absolutely And we'll talk about that

[00:23:31] I'm sure Jerry West will be on the list of players That we discussed There's another one I didn't get to see play But man I got to see a lot of him When I went to the games Because obviously he was just a phenomenal executive

[00:23:42] Check out what he did In the first two games of the 69 series He was unstoppable Have a check went off in the first two games I guess in the 40s But West was in the 50s It's just like oh my god

[00:23:54] And the Wakers won the first two games in that series Well we will definitely have Jerry West On as a topic of conversation Please man if you enjoyed this If you enjoyed learning about Sam Jones From somebody who saw him play Like comment add us subscribe

[00:24:12] Do whatever you need to do Man it all helps us This is something that we enjoy doing This is something Steve and I just do Normally Well we talk basketball So it's pretty cool to do it with you all And hopefully you learned a little something

[00:24:29] About the second greatest NBA champion In terms of rings He's got one for each finger man Sam Jones Let us know who you want us to discuss You know somebody that you know You've been curious about We brought a Jerry West

[00:24:44] I could you know we can rattle off a whole bunch of Melvin Baylor George Curvin John Ablicek Rick Bowie Rick Berry Pistol Pete Marovitch Let us know if there's a particular player You want to hear about And we'd be happy to talk about it

[00:24:57] We're going to do these shows every week Through the NBA offseason And then when the season begins We'll likely pivot back to 13 rules around In NBA thoughts But we might still be doing this Because this is fun And there's just a wealth of players out there to discuss

[00:25:12] But thank you so much for joining We really appreciate it Again please like, subscribe And leave your comments We'd love to hear from you And join us next week We don't know who we'll be talking about yet But we'll be talking about somebody On 13 rules over time

[00:25:26] Steve, thanks